Marketing Matters with WEO Media

Joseph: Welcome to Marketing Matters with WEO Media. Today we're addressing one of the hottest topics in dentistry, if not the world, cybersecurity. To help us tackle this critical subject, we've got our friends and experts here from Anatomy IT. Thank you for joining us, gentlemen.

Bill Sintiris: Thank you, Joseph.

Clint Delander: Thank you for having us.

Joseph: Great having you here. Let's start with both of you sharing a little bit about what you do and who you are.

Bill Sintiris: Absolutely. So I'll jump right in. Thank you for your time today. We're looking forward to this conversation. My name is Bill Sintiris. I'm with Anatomy IT. I'm the Chief Product Officer. Prior to that, I was the Chief Operating Officer for two and a half years. I joined Anatomy IT three years ago after a 25-year career in IT in hospitality. So over the last two and a half, three years, I've been focused on driving healthcare IT and cybersecurity into the mid-market and lower end of the healthcare market space, providing solutions that are tailored towards small practices all the way through critical access regional hospitals.

Clint Delander: Great. And I'm Clint Delander. I'm also with Anatomy IT. I'm a business development executive here. I've been in the dental IT space for over 20 years in various forms. I recently joined Anatomy IT through an acquisition. They acquired a business that my partner, Zach Spaniel, and I started called Manta HealthTech. We provided managed services and cybersecurity solutions primarily to dental offices.

Joseph: Thank you Clint. Great having you here. Bill, what are you seeing in the market specific to cybersecurity and dental offices?

Bill Sintiris: Yeah, I think that's a great question. I'll start with healthcare in general and then we'll target specifically around dental offices. So healthcare, as you know, over the last several years has become more and more of a target of attacks. The threat landscape is continuing to evolve. And one thing that we're seeing from our clients is that they need to keep on top of the ever-existing threats and evolving threats, and they need solutions that can go along that journey with them. So one thing that we're seeing for sure is a deeper investment into cybersecurity by our clients, an investment into overall governance and resiliency planning, and then an investment into training and user awareness training.

So when you start to break it down, our healthcare partners are definitely seeing an increase in investment into cybersecurity tools as well as overall practices because they are becoming more and more targets. And for them, their focus is twofold. One is to protect critical patient data and two, ensure the availability of systems so they can continue to provide care.

Now, specifically to the dental market, the dental market is becoming more and more of a target even in the last several months. So in early May, you may have seen the ADA announced a bulletin along with the FBI where they were seeing an increase in threat activities targeting dental practices. And so there were a few things happening there. One was typical social engineering scams where they were trying to get into the systems, get access to critical patient data. And then certainly that was disrupting business activity. So there are some precautions that are coming out from the ADA that I think are very, very spot on. And they're based upon the CISA recommendations and we can certainly talk about those and what that means for dental practices.

Joseph: Clint, do you have any specific examples of what you see or what's happening in dental offices, dental practices?

Clint Delander: Yeah, Joseph, there are a few that come to mind. One thing is most recent, the breach with Change Healthcare. So it's a third-party insurance processor that a lot of dental offices used and small medical offices used and they were breached. And as a result, for about three weeks, practices were not able to submit claims to insurance companies. It affected millions of patients. Right now I'm just actually looking at some of the recommendations that the Office for Civil Rights is stating in a bulletin here regarding offices needing to notify their patient base about the breach as well. So the notifications are underway, which obviously requires a lot of resources from a dental clinic, especially in an office that is already stretched for resources, but also there's the impact of cash flow.

Imagine three weeks of not being able to receive payments from an insurance company puts strains on the office operations. I even had some customers who had to seek outside capital and tie up their credit just to bridge the three weeks and the time that followed until they would receive payment from the insurance companies. So that's a large, scaled breach that occurred just recently.

But I also have a couple of situations that I was involved with. One of them was I met with a young dentist at a trade show. He had just purchased an established practice from a gentleman that retired. And the retirement dentist did not have an IT company. He did his own backups and managed it all on his own. And the gentleman that purchased the practice was trying to learn more about the services that we provide and all that comes along with it. And he chose at the time not to move forward as he was still getting his arms around cash flow and prioritizing his spend and where to invest. And then about three months later, I remember vividly, it was a Tuesday before Thanksgiving, he called me and he's like, "Clint, I need your help."

And I said, "What happened?" He goes, "Well, I went into my computer today at work, and there I was informed that I was infected with ransomware." And he described what it looked like, and he had a choice to make, which was to either pay the ransom in the form of Bitcoin or lose the ability to access his data. So I advised him to look at a backup, his most recent backup, which he then told me that a backup had not occurred, a successful backup had not occurred for over two years. So he was really in a spot, which was obviously very unfortunate for him.

So what he chose to do was to pay the ransom. So I helped him facilitate that transaction through a colleague of mine that had Bitcoin. And fortunately for him, his only way out was paying the ransom and he was able to get the code that unencrypted his data. And fortunately, the patient information was not breached as a result, but a disaster in the making nonetheless.

Joseph: It's terrifying. I know the question on everyone's mind is, what can I do today, like right now, to protect myself from something like this happening? How do you answer that?

Bill Sintiris: Yeah, I can jump in there. So I think there are a few things that you can do immediately, right? And I think this is where I think the ADA did a very good job highlighting some of the precautions you can take. And I think there are a few more. So the ADA very specifically came out and said, teach your team to recognize and avoid phishing scams. And what that means is user awareness training on what security scams are out there, how to avoid them and how to protect your patient data. First and foremost, training is so critical to our employees to make sure that they really understand how to protect patient data. That's the first step.

The second step is to really require complex passwords. In the case that Clint talked about, there are a couple of breakdowns. One, they were compromised, and then two, they didn't have the data accessible, but they could have avoided compromise by a couple of things. One, making sure they have complex passwords. And then two, making sure that they leverage multi-factor authentication. So when they log in, you want a second factor of authentication. There are a number of tools out there. And a lot of online tools are now moving to second factor authentication to send you a text code. That's a very common thing to implement and should be implemented across all key systems.

And then finally, updating all business software. So what we see a lot in healthcare is that there are a number of legacy systems still in service, a number of legacy workstations, servers, and even applications. So having a holistic plan to update and modernize your systems to supportable levels is critical. When Microsoft stops supporting an operating system, that's a big risk for an organization to take on because once they stop supporting it with security updates, those become target vectors for attacks. So certainly updating your business software, the underlying operating systems.

And then I would say the final one, which they don't touch upon, but I think is really important, is the ability to back up and confirm the quality of your backed up data. So in the case that Clint talked about, this organization, they weren't backing up their data effectively, nor could they recover it and avoid the fee and paying the fee to get their data unencrypted. Had they had a backup that was separate from their internal systems and what we call air gap, they would have been able to quickly recover and avoid the disruption in service. So those five things I think are super critical to do right away.

Joseph: I'm glad you mentioned the backup, especially since Clint mentioned that. I've heard, again, I'm not the expert, but I've heard that one of the first things a smart hacker does is poison the backup before anything else. And so if you have that backup that's current, and you mentioned air gap or some kind of a gap, meaning it's completely separate from the system itself that's inaccessible to the hacker, then you would not be held hostage, would you?

Bill Sintiris: Absolutely, absolutely. So it's a critical step and you're right to call it out. Air gapping really separates the infrastructure. So if one set of infrastructure is compromised, you still have the backup copy in a safe place and that's going to be critical. Some practices do choose to do that backup on the same network and on the same devices that get compromised. And as you rightly called out, that will be the first thing they compromise to take away your recovery.

Clint Delander: Yeah, we often say it's like a game of whack-a-mole, right? They come up with a new way to penetrate the network and a new way to disrupt things. And companies like ours are closing that door and then another door gets opened up and it's this constant game, if you will, almost.

Joseph: Are there any cybersecurity needs of a dental practice that are in any way different than what you see in healthcare in general?

Bill Sintiris: No, and Clint, I can start and I'd love your opinion on this as well, but I would say not really, right? So what we see in most dental practices is a common set of tools, typically somewhat modernized. And as long as you're doing endpoint detection and response on it, which is kind of the next level of antivirus protection, so threat detection and management, if you're doing that across all systems, you're covering yourself pretty well, along with the practices that we already talked about. But that's common across all medical practices. So nothing different necessarily about dental that we see and we have a common set of tools that we can bring into dental environments that protects that data.

Joseph: What about with regard to DSOs? Is there any particular additional challenge for a DSO than a single location dental office? Anything come to mind?

Bill Sintiris: Yeah, well, there are a few things that come to mind and Clint, I don't mean to jump in again, but certainly when you're working across multiple practices, you always have to think about the network connecting those practices. So if there is some shared systems or environments that need to be connected, you need to think about the integration points. Whereas a typical single practice will not have those integration points, you will have that typically in a DSO scenario. So you have to make sure those are protected, locked down and then obviously gapped enough to where there can't be exposure across it. Clint, I don't know if you have anything else to add on that.

Clint Delander: No, I just think, you know, going back to some of the challenges that a dental office has, you know, is just stereotype a hospital has a larger budget, more resources at their disposal, and, you know, an individual dental practice doesn't have that same means to protect themselves. What we try to do is at least on an annual basis is have a business meeting with owners so they understand where those gaps might be and then almost put a treatment plan in place with them like they do with their patients and oftentimes it's phased based upon budget or where we think the biggest gap is. We want to close that one right away and then be making decisions about things that are also coming in the near future.

Bill touched on end-of-life software so that means that the manufacturer is no longer going to provide updates or patches for that software and we have a big one on the horizon here where Windows 10 will no longer be supported or end of life here in October of 2025. So that's something that all offices, healthcare, dental, whoever it might be, should be aware of and how that impacts them because it's just around the corner.

Joseph: Updates represent a specific vulnerability, don't they?

Clint Delander: Oftentimes, dental offices count on their managed services provider to perform those updates for them on a regular basis. So patching the computers themselves and the servers is a service that we offer.

Joseph: You hinted at this Clint and that is, you know, the larger the organization it's possible that their budget is slightly better for the cybersecurity and IT than an individual dental practice. How can they make this affordable? How can the single location practice make cybersecurity part of their budget?

Clint Delander: It really does require an investment as well as a prioritization. This right of course money doesn't grow on trees if it did this would be a lot different conversation, but it's understanding the risk tolerance that they have associated with things and then we through those conversations and budgets a big part of those help them prioritize what to do immediately and you know what might be able to be put off from a prioritization standpoint, but it is a definite challenge.

Bill Sintiris: Yeah. And I would add, I think you're spot on prioritizing the most urgent and pervasive issues and then protecting against those as quickly as you can is critical. Doing the things that we mentioned like air gap backups, multi-factor authentication, some level of endpoint detection and response. The other things can come. You can layer these in over time. But what we're seeing really is there used to be a separation of patient care investment and then IT investment. And really that's coming together to ensure good quality patient care, protecting patient medical records, and then protecting the availability of care if systems go down. It's one bucket of spend. So we try to help clients with that.

Joseph: I can see that. It's becoming one great big bucket, as expensive as it may be. It's all merging together. I like what you said about as one of those five, there is a staff training, a team training element there. I think you mentioned early on, which is the phishing training, what not to open. Could you expand on that a little more? I'm not sure if some new members of the team may not know what a bad email looks like when they're maybe relatively new to dentistry. What could that policy look like when it comes to email?

Bill Sintiris: Yeah, so there are a few things that you kind of wrap into that. One is effectively training your end users on what is good behavior, what is bad behavior, and what to look for in your email, right? So an email might look like it comes from the CEO, but there are signs that it's not from the CEO, right? And then what do you do to validate that? And don't click on links that you don't know. Some of the basic things that seem obvious, but when you're busy in your day-to-day, you just click on things because you're moving fast.

User awareness training as you step back with small segments of training, usually 20 minutes once a month where they go through training and refresher. They get taken through the scenarios, some examples, really reminds them what to do, what not to do. And then throughout the year, you can do phishing simulations where you basically send them phishing attacks that are fake phishing attacks, but see if they click on it. And then you start to judge your team to say, how often are we clicking on these attacks? Do we need to do more training? And then holistically wrap that together.

Clint Delander: To add on to that, when we look at the DSO or a larger organization, you know, controlling that message and making sure that each staff member is trained gets a lot more difficult, right? Just because of the mass. I had one example of I was doing a cybersecurity awareness talk to this specialist organization had 67 employees and this is you can't even make this up all but one employee was able to make the session. The person that was not there came in the next day and clicked on an email that contained ransomware and infected four offices and impacted their business for over two weeks as a result of that ransomware.

Joseph: Don't get me started on weakest links. At WEO Media, we have a real appreciation for how much it takes to stay on the cutting edge of marketing with the hundreds of changes that Google makes to their algorithm on an annual basis. I gotta believe that that same thing is true for an IT company focusing on cybersecurity. How do you stay current? And yeah, what do you do to stay current? What does that look like in such a rapidly changing landscape comparable to Google's algorithm?

Bill Sintiris: Yeah, I'm not sure much is as complicated as the Google algorithm for sure. But from our perspective, staying on top of what's going on in the threat landscape is critical. So we parse it in a few different ways. So the first is we have a security team that is constantly staying abreast of evolving threats that are coming to the market, whether it's zero-day threats or threats that are forthcoming, and ensuring that our clients are patched according to those threats. So sometimes you'll get a Microsoft notification of a zero-day threat. You have to patch everybody very quickly. So we're very early on getting those notifications. We act quickly to make sure our clients are updated. So that's one segment of it, which is kind of your OS level threats. Then there are the behavioral threats, like we talked about. Knowledge is critical on those. So evolving our training for the end users to make sure that they understand what kind of threats are evolving and what they might see and what they should be aware of. So part of it goes from our notification all the way into the training.

And then finally, it's designing the systems to make sure that they're resilient and they can handle the attack because in a lot of cases, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. So what can you do when you design the environment to make sure that if it is attacked, that you can mitigate that attack and that you can recover from it if it does invade you. And some of the things we talked about, start with design, start with making sure that your backups are running all along and then being able to recover those backups from a clear source.

But on our team alone, we have seven certified CISSPs. So those are the top level security level certifications in the industry. And those team members are constantly attending training, staying abreast of the most relevant information, specifically with our technology stack and beyond, and then they make recommendations to the operational organization to put that into practice.

Joseph: So Clint, did you have something to add there?

Clint Delander: Yeah, one thing we haven't really talked about is I think is a disaster recovery plan. You know, I think the customer should have expectations based upon what their current network stack is and services they have. You know, if something like this, you know, terrible event were to happen, what does the recovery look like in those steps and how long would that take? So that's a very important thing that, you know, everyone should have, regardless of what solutions they have in place or don't have in place.

Bill Sintiris: I think this is a great call out, Clint, because you talked about what the larger organizations have to spend money to prepare their organization in the event of a disaster. And in the hospital segment, they call it a code dark. If they have to shut down all their systems, can they continue to provide critical patient care? But the reality is, is that even in the clinical setting and in the dental setting, you need to continue to run your business and see patients. So there was a small set of things that you can do to make sure that you can continue to operate as a clinic, even in the event of system challenges, right? So part of it's design, part of it's what steps do you take if you are compromised? And then part of it is how do you recover? But sometimes just documenting it, you find gaps in those steps and making sure that you document it so when it does happen, if it ever does, it's just a simple playbook to follow. And it doesn't have to be overly complicated like a hospital using a code dark, but it simply needs to be documented.

Joseph: In the offices that need to have a good heart-to-heart conversation after listening to this podcast. For those not fortunate enough to have an expert on their team like you are, what would a dental office do to stay on the cutting edge of the latest? How would they keep themselves informed of what's happening?

Bill Sintiris: Yeah. So maybe Clint, I can start and I'd love you to jump in as well. But I would say a lot of times, you know, dental practices are really good at providing patient dental care, right? They're not going to be great at managing IT and emerging cybersecurity threats. So finding a partner that can support their practice is typically critical. And they don't need to, you know, they don't need to do everything with that partner, but they need a base level of support that they can ensure that they're getting updates regularly, that they're getting backups regularly, and they're getting that guidance and that kind of, that river guide guidance that takes them along that journey, because things are always changing. And just like in the medical space, the things are always changing. It is in healthcare, in healthcare IT as well. They need to stay on with that. And so typically a partner is your best bet.

Clint Delander: And a partner that specializes in healthcare IT, you know, a generalist just doesn't have the exposure or the depth of experience to understand HIPAA regulations and recommendations and guidance and be compliant with all those things. So definitely look for a partner that focuses on healthcare and maybe even specifically dental.

Joseph: What can you share with us then as to how, given the rising costs and the budget constraints that an individual practice might have, let alone a DSO, how can you make an investment like this affordable?

Clint Delander: So first thing I want to say is make sure you have cyber liability insurance. Okay, if at a very minimum have cyber liability insurance to cover you in the event of an attack where there's expenses that are going to be incurred. The challenge that offices are receiving now with cyber liability insurance coverage is since the pandemic, the number of threats have drastically gone up. So as well as the claims against insurance companies for cyber crimes and events. So the standards or the qualifications just to get a policy now are much higher than they used to be pre-pandemic levels.

So insurance companies are now mandating that they have things in place like Bill had mentioned earlier, endpoint detection and response or EDR, multi-factor authentication, encrypted backups, and the list kind of goes on and on. So at a bare minimum, make sure you're covered with a good cyber reliability insurance policy and understand how that works should you need to use it.

But then also, more directly, how do you consume or how is it digestible to add these additional services on? And that's really where a trusted partner, an advisor, someone with an experience like this that understands that there are budgetary challenges, that the ability to prioritize, I think, is probably the best way to accomplish that.

Joseph: Anything to add there, Bill?

Bill Sintiris: No, I think it's spot on. I think what we're seeing is, you know, there are some base minimum things you need to do, right, as a healthcare provider. But you can prioritize those things and invest where you can along the way. It doesn't have to be everything at once. But as we mentioned earlier, the most urgent things should be addressed pretty quickly. And having a cyber liability insurance provider to work with in the event of an issue is really critical as well. We've seen a number of offices forgo that insurance coverage. And then when those bills start to come in, when they're trying to recover from an incident, it becomes pretty big.

Joseph: I would love to know what upcoming initiatives Anatomy IT has on the horizon that may be something you could share.

Bill Sintiris: Yeah, sure. There's a few things we're pretty excited about as we go into the second half of the year. One of them is ensuring that all of our clients have the right level of coverage. So we're giving that kind of that river guide guidance to our clients on what is minimally needed to protect their environment and then offering them ways to help them get there, right? So that we know that they can't do it overnight. So we have a program underway where we're bringing our clients on that journey.

But even for non-clients, we've developed what we call the Health IT Framework. And that framework is a series of 44 questions that allows an office or an organization or DSO to assess their IT health and maturity, not just from a technology perspective, but from a process, business continuity, disaster recovery, HIPAA compliance perspective. And it gives them really an objective score of how they're doing and how they're doing against other providers. So we're very excited about that in the market right now. And we think it's a way for clients to really see where are they on the IT maturity journey? What do they need to do next? And then they can develop that prioritized roadmap that Clint talked about to say, here's how we should invest over the next 12 to 18 months.

Joseph: That sounds like a very realistic plan. I would love to have a plan like that. And they can get that from you by just contacting you at Anatomy IT. That's a business development question there, Clint. How would you prefer listeners get a hold of you?

Clint Delander: Yeah, so there's multiple ways, you know, email's a good one. Clint, C-L-I-N-T dot Delander D-E-L-A-N-D-E-R at anatomyit.com is one of the most effective ways. Or you can contact me directly. 715-307-1796.

Joseph: Thank you. And your website is anatomyit.com? Wonderful. Well, you said it. It's not a matter of if anymore. It's simply a matter of when. And to pretend that it may never happen is not very prudent in this scary cyber nutso world that we live in. We're so glad we had you on this episode so that we could be more informed. And on behalf of our clients, thank you very much for helping us be more prepared.

Bill Sintiris: Well, thank you, Joseph, for having us, and we're very excited to talk to you and your listeners.

Joseph: We are most fortunate. Thank you again. Bye bye.

Clint Delander: Thank you, Joseph.

Joseph: Marketing Matters with WEO Media is a podcast designed first and foremost to share best practice pearls and meaningful growth opportunities for our clients. But in this episode, given our experience in serving DSOs as well, the demand for exploring their needs is something we fail to address on several levels. Much of what we'll explore together will still include pearls that apply to a single location office, and I'm sure you'll see, we'll be interviewing executives and thought leaders that have a unique appreciation for the challenges facing our industry, as we further expand into the DSO world as many others that we know.

So welcome to Marketing Matters with WEO Media. As your host for this episode, I am joined by my good friend Janet Hagerman, RDH, who is the fractional CHO as in Chief Hygiene Officer. She is an international speaker and consultant. She' written numerous articles, been on several podcasts and webinars, and she' the author of three books: Selling Dentistry, Meetings Make Money, and Bloom. She' a graduate of the Medical College of Georgia with 30 years of clinical and coaching experience with both solo and group practices, having managed over 100 practice locations in a single DSO as Director of Dental Hygiene. Janet, thank you for taking the time to be with us.
Janet: My pleasure, Joseph.
Joseph: In the years that I had the privilege of coaching and consulting in the dental industry, I learned very quickly that hygiene was truly the heart of the practice. And often as I began working with the practice, the heart wasn't healthy and needed to be pumping more energy and lifeblood into that practice. And so that' where we'd often start, that was where much of our initial success was focused. And because of the impact that hygiene would have on the practice, it was a really good place to start. I'm sure that' probably the same with DSOs. Tell us about that. What are the complexities around a DSO hygiene department in a DSO organization?
Janet: Well, first of all, you're absolutely correct in your observations that the hygiene department is one of the foundational legs of the practice. So from a solo standpoint, it' really not any different in terms of what the hygienist should be doing in the treatment area. And, you know, we've gone from that cleaning lady model of only doing prophylaxis to much more, and I'll get into that. But when you compare that to the DSO, I mean, first of all, you have to think about the fact that you want consistency. So you want consistency from practice to practice for many reasons, not only for the patient experience, should they go to a different office, but also from the clinician experience if the clinicians are going from office to office, and just consistency in standard of care are receiving the same standard of care in all our offices, from a recruiting perspective, from an onboarding perspective. And from a training perspective, that consistency needs to be in place for a DSO.

To elaborate on that a little bit, a lack of consistency, whether it' the communication systems that we have for our people, how do we present treatment? How do we talk about treatment case acceptance? How do we talk about fees? How do we talk to our patients? How do we listen to our patients? All that needs to be consistent because everything we say and do in the practice either pushes patients away or pulls them toward us. One person who is not mindful about the language that they use to speak to patients can sabotage the whole communication from the rest of the practice. So it' important for consistency, and more and more we're seeing now ROI of soft skills from the practitioners.

Joseph: If there' no consistency, when something happens that you need to change, there' really no way to change that, right? Or when you do something right, how do you leverage that? If there' no consistency in the actual system, and it' a much bigger problem or issue when you have multiple locations, the need for systems is even probably more important.

Janet: The problem with DSOs that they sometimes face is they grow location-wise too fast before they had the systems in place. It could be any system, not just hygiene. But hygiene needs to be the foundation of the practice. And it benefits the practice in so many ways, from patient loyalty to generating revenue, and everything in between. So it is really crucial for a DSO to get their same-store growth solid as far as hygiene is concerned or any of their systems really, before they start to expand in terms of adding locations. It certainly makes onboarding new locations much easier and smoother if you already had systems in place. Otherwise, you just have hygiene chaos.

There' the hygiene gold mine in every practice and every DSO. And it' patient-centered. But if those systems aren't in place, you don't get to tap into that hygiene gold mine. You haven't found it yet. It' there, you just haven't mined it, and you have hygiene chaos. So you have the systems that whatever the hygiene of the day, the hygiene du jour, if you will, brings to the practice which may or may not be congruent with your standard of care and values as a DSO as a solo practice.

Joseph: You're already hinting at a few pain points there. I can imagine there are multiple pain points that you see commonly. Would you like to address some of those?

Janet: Well, right now what we're seeing a lot of is, you know, just finding hygienists. Hygiene turnover. Finding good hygienists and then keeping good hygienists. Good hygienists want a good culture, they want to feel that they are part of the system, that they're part of the decision-making process. So I think the pain points would be hygiene turnover, patient turnover, low case acceptance, those are all indications that have a need for an opportunity for growth. Low perio percentage, all those would be pain points that are opportunities for growth to increase periodontal procedures, because we know three-quarters of the population has some level of periodontal disease. So we go into a practice or practices and you look at the metrics and you say, only 30% of perio is being done or less, there' a big discrepancy there, that practice is not taking care of their perio needs of their patients. So that would be a pain point.

Joseph: And clearly, the way a small to medium DSO grows and scales, they often begin growing before they have all of the systems in place to accommodate those additional locations. Ideally, they have the systems in place that then they can replicate for healthy growth. That must be something of where you would come in, because in a DSO, you're generally going to have a hygiene director, will you not sometimes?

Janet: Yes, sometimes. No, it just depends. I mean, you know, there' that saying, if you've seen one DSO, you've seen one DSO. There is no consistent business model. They just kind of grow organically. When I was hired, there was no hygiene director, I pretty much created everything from scratch, which was daunting at first till I figured out what a great team I had to work with. And then it became great because you had this blank palette from which to build. So you know, some DSOs may have one person that' hygiene leader, they may have a couple of hygiene leaders, they may have a couple of hygiene mentors, it pretty much is all across the board. And it depends on how many locations they have. But a lot of times what happens is, hygienists are promoted from being a top-producing hygienist to a leadership position when the skill sets are really totally different. Now, you know, there may be hygienists that have great leadership potential that are also good producers. But there should be different types of criteria for a hygienist that you take out of a clinical position or at least graduate them gradually to a leadership position. Leadership skills are becoming more and more important and communication soft skills are becoming more and more important on a corporate business level, which is really what a DSO is. It' more of a corporate structure than what we're really used to in a sole proprietor, single office.

Joseph: If a DSO already has a well-structured hygiene department with a hygiene director, where does a fractional CHO fit into that model?

Janet: Well, they may not need a fractional CHO. But they may. I mean, I recently talked to several DSOs, one that had a group of leaders, hygiene leaders, another one that had a director of hygiene, but that was newly appointed. And she had only been in position a couple of months, but she was frustrated and overwhelmed and didn't really know where to start. She was a great hygienist, had great leadership skills, loved learning, wanted to learn, wanting to be coached, and just felt like, you know, I have these issues, and I am not sure how to solve them.

So one of the challenges is coming from clinical to management is the heartbreaking realization that you cannot be in every office. It' just not physically possible. When I came to my position with this company, they had over 100 practices. I think they had 130-140 practices. And I came in and naively said before the year is over, I am going to visit every one of our practices. And it just didn't happen and it doesn't need to happen, especially now with Zoom. There are so many ways that we can really stay in touch and figure out how to manage good productive meetings as well. So that when you are together, you make good use of that time, figuring out how to manage, figure out how to roll out the procedures or the systems that you want for your DSO that touches everybody, but in a way that makes them feel like they still have a connection with you, that you're not sitting in some remote location, even though you may be, but that they still feel like they're cared for, that their opinion counts. And that you're all part of a team, whether it' the team within your practice, or the bigger team within the entire DSO, and that comes down to the culture and the core values of the company.

Joseph: You really do take a personal people approach to the type of coaching and consulting you do even though it' hygiene, it' all about people and that' the training I can see that you provide.

Janet: And you know, Joseph, now more than ever, is what the whole industry needs. Because our patients are savvier than ever and they have the ability to walk out the door and go someplace else for reasons we never know. And it could be something subtle. So we need to learn to be more and more aware of how we use our soft skills and not just come in and think of the clinical work that we need to do. But we need to think about how we appear to our patients and the conversations to have more focused conversations.

So here' the thing, when patients have decisions to make about their dentistry, we have a left and right brain. And scientists tell us now that they're quite specific. The right side of the brain is the creative side, and it is the emotional side. The left side of the brain is the logical side. So in dentistry, where do you think we live? We live in the logical side of millimeters. And when our patients are in the chair, and we're talking to them, we talk very logically. Our patients don't care about that. And quite frankly, they don't know if your dentistry is any good or not.

Our patients, surveys tell us, want to be a part of the decision-making process. They want this thing called shared decision-making. Surveys tell us that most buying decisions are made with emotion. And then they are rationalized with logic. I mean, all you have to do is look at 99.9% of commercials that are out there for anything to see that they appeal to people' emotions. So how do we do that in dentistry? How do we appeal to people' emotions and meet our patients where they are emotionally and learn what their values are, rather than expecting them to know? You know, we used to talk about this thing called dental IQ. We need to raise the patient' dental IQ. No, we don't. We need to meet them where they are emotionally and learn what their values are.

I talk a lot about asking good open-ended questions and listening to our patients rather than telling, telling, telling. And this is not just hygiene, this is all across the board. As our society globally, and granularly in the dental industry becomes more and more technically oriented, I mean, you know as well as I do, the technology in our industry alone is breathtaking. It happens so fast. And a lot of it is really cool stuff. And as we become more technically proficient, we need to balance that with deeply human skills, which is empathy, understanding. These are the skills that are required by businesses and Fortune 500 companies even. So it' imperative that we spend, we invest in our people and train them in these human skills, which we are hardwired to relate to. We are not hardwired to relate to millimeters of bone loss of periodontal disease and crown margins.

You know that saying, people will not remember what you say, but they will never forget how you make them feel. So that' the type of training that we need for our people. And that just gets exemplified in a DSO. DSOs are here to stay, they're growing. And so they need to be, and in many ways, they are at the forefront of new technologies. So we're quick to jump on the new technology bandwagon. But what about the technologies that serve our employees' soft skills, which are going to serve our patients?

Joseph: I've always been amazed at how technically intensive dentistry essentially is. And we spend so much time on the technical side. And yet, it' the soft side, the people skill side that will determine how much of those technical skills you will ever get to use.

Janet: Yeah, there was a study that was done. They did this project at the Cleveland Clinic, which is renowned for being very exceptional in their clinical skills, but they were getting low readings on patient satisfaction. And so they did a project where they trained their, you know, there' low like brain surgeons, you know, really highly technical clinicians, doctors, and they did a project where they put them all through training in empathy, and how to talk to patients and their patient satisfaction skyrocketed after that. It was a very interesting, very successful project, which they now embrace full time.

And I think we're gonna see more and more of that. I was on a podcast yesterday, earlier this week, and we were talking about the patient experience, these shared patient experiences. And there are some schools now that are starting to teach that. It' very new. But I think we're going to see a huge trend in this type of human investment work, because people demand it. I mean, people do not have to come to your practice or your DSO, they have choices. And they're not going to become loyal patients because you do the most beautiful crowns on the block. What they care about is how do they make me feel? Did I feel like they just told me, here' an $8,000 treatment plan? I just came in for my free cleaning. And now I've got an $8,000 treatment plan. Or, wow, you know, that was a really thorough exam. And I felt like they really cared.

Joseph: Janet, I would really love to have you back so that we can explore that, especially the book you've written on selling dentistry. What' the full title of that book?

Janet: I'm glad you asked that because, you know, I've had doctors say, when you come to our practice for our training, can you teach my team how to sell dentistry? Because I know dentistry is walking out the door. But whatever you do, don't call it selling dentistry. We and I've even had dentists say you really should change the title. And I said, well, but when I speak about it, the rooms are always packed. They say, Oh, no, we want to learn how to sell dentistry. We just don't want to call it that. I want to call it that. So I think book Selling Dentistry, because we have to get over that reluctance to give selling a bad name. So the tagline is "Selling Dentistry: Ethically, Elegantly and Effectively."

So ethically means we're not selling somebody a bill of goods that they don't need, selling them the treatment that they do need. And effectively just means did we succeed, you know, patient education, patient education all day long. But if the patient doesn't say yes, you haven't been effective. Yes, I want it. Yes, I'm scheduling the appointment. Yes, I showed up, I got the treatment done, and paid for it. And then elegantly is about, I don't ever want anybody to feel salesy or sleazy or pushy. That' not what good selling is about. And so we want to feel elegant about this and like it' comfortable. And we want our patients to feel good about the way they receive information as well.

Joseph: Taking us back to the DSO world, then what I mean, this is an investment. Hygiene, as a department is a huge investment for that practice. What' a realistic ROI? What' the best return on investment that they should be looking for there?

Janet: You know, the best way to answer that, because it' going to be unique to every practice. I mean, with my case acceptance courses, I can get them to double and triple their case acceptance. In a practice that has a low perio percentage, that could double, triple or even more, increase their perio procedures with information and training. So it depends on where they are. Anything from 50 to 80%, just depending on where their numbers are. So it' looking at where are you now? And where do you want to go? You may have some really high benchmarks that you're doing great at, and you may have some others that are flailing. So those are the ones that you would need to improve.

Joseph: Those benchmarks have over time become extremely standardized. You just know by looking at the numbers, whether they're achieving what they should be, or if there' just no opportunity. There are some industry standards. I'll give you a few. So for example, perio procedures should be more than prophylaxis procedures, 50% or over for periodontal procedures. Also, hygienists can make a huge difference in referring restorative work to the doctor. So in other words, I'm the hygienist. I'm assessing the patient, I spend more time with the patient than the doctor does. So I'm in a position to identify and assess some areas that might need treatment and say, "I see some areas here that certainly appear to be decay and they're going to need to be treated. When Dr. Smith comes in, I'd like for him to take a look at that. But in the meantime, while you and I are here, what questions do you have for me about that?"

By the time Dr. Smith comes in, I've already prepared the patient, we've had a conversation, I know their values. So hygienists can be huge in that. And as a result of that, what we see in successful practices is that 30% of the restorative revenue should come from the hygiene department, referring to the doctor. So there' another benchmark to look at. If that' not happening, there' a huge opportunity for growth. A lot of hygienists either haven't been sufficiently trained, or it hasn't been reinforced that this is part of what we do. We look at not just perio, the gum surrounding tissue, but the actual hard tissue, the teeth, the teeth that the doctor restores. And so in a great situation, the doctor and the hygienist, it' symbiotic, they help each other. It' like a great marriage. So they partner together to be advocates for the patient. In my "Meetings Make Money" manual, I talk about the doctor-hygiene meetings monthly, and how that can help reinforce that partnership.

Joseph: You mentioned the other day when we spoke that you knew of two revenue generators that they could implement immediately, for a greater return. Do you remember what those were?

Janet: Yeah, there is a code out now for periodontal patients who are in the early stages and don't have permanent bone loss. And in the past, we never had a code for that. It was very frustrating for hygienists. They didn't know where to put these patients because there wasn't a code for it. If you want to get paid by your insurance companies, everything has to have a code. So we didn't have a code for this gingivitis, where there' bleeding, but there' no permanent bone loss. So we now have a code for that. So that would be the first thing that I would say.

The second thing is, I would say look in your reports and pull a report for untreated treatment plans. These are the patients who have been diagnosed, this is the treatment that I'm recommending, here' the treatment plan, but it hasn't been implemented, hasn't been accepted. You can look in any practice management software, there will be a report of who are the patients who have outstanding treatment that hasn't been done. And just start getting in touch with those patients. That is a gold mine waiting to be tapped. They've already been diagnosed, they already have a relationship with you. Send emails, start with emails, follow up with some calls, send little thank you notes, little cards in the mail if you have to, but just continuing that relationship with the patient. So those would be the two.

Joseph: Excellent. Janet, you've been a wealth of information. I thank you for joining us. How will people be able to reach out to you if they have questions?

Janet: My website is simply JanetHagerman.com, H-A-G-E-R-M-A-N, and they can email me at info@JanetHagerman.com.

Joseph: Wonderful. Thank you, Janet. I can't wait to have you back so we can fully explore specifically your book "Selling Dentistry." That will be fun. I look forward to that. Thank you again.

Janet: Thank you for having me, Joseph. It' been great.

[00:00:04] Joseph : Welcome to Marketing Matters with Weo Media. As your host for this episode, I have the pleasure of introducing our good friend, Greg Essenmacher, CEO and founder of GNA Consult and the host of Tooth Sleuth Podcast.

Great having you here, Greg. Thank you.

[00:00:23]Greg : Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the invite. Looking forward to the conversation, Joseph.

[00:00:27] Joseph : Yeah, we're going to have some fun here. , let me tell our listeners a little more about who you are. 17 years in the dental industry. you were actively involved in launching the Neodent brand in the U S market. , you are clearly an expert in all things full arch. but beyond simply helping a practice as a consultant, do more.

Implants. You take a very comprehensive approach to that effort. , you're not, you're not just niche. Focused. You literally, from a strategy standpoint, cover every base. And, And clearly given your experience, you just know a lot about, , what it takes for a practice to go from A to Z in that, in that world.

So, you know, for all things, implant-related, how, how do you do what you do? How do you do that?

[00:01:26] Greg : Yeah, I appreciate it. And you know, it is true when you look, look at Fixed Full Arch and you look at the landscape. I mean, the industry is so broad and it's growing, right? And we can talk about those numbers, you know, just in the Fixed Full Arch area, a 1. 5 billion industry annually and growing at 8%. And consistently over the last five to seven years.

I mean, these are some really gaudy numbers. And so it's no surprise that many clinicians are wanting to get into it. You know, whether you're talking about individual practices, small emerging groups, which is where I do most of my work, you know, or even what I call the big box stores. I mean, we could talk about ClearChoice and Nuvia and Advanced Dental Implant Centers and, and, and I could go on and on and on when you're really looking at the fixed full arch space.

It's not so much about the product, right? Of course, there's a product. There's a dental prosthesis. There are the implants. It's screwing it together. It's making Sure.

The occlusion is right. Occlusion is right. It's more so on the motivation of the patient. So I've been spending a lot of my time recently really talking and honing in on the patient experience because anybody who's in this space knows that in the last two years, the last year, the last six months, the last three months, the dynamics of the patient Have been changing significantly.

And I'm not just talking about credit scores are changing and people are concerned because of inflation. And of course that's a contributing factor, but the attitudes of patients, when you look at, if you're doing Google AdWords, you know, you look at the formulas that changed and, you know, a mall with patient prism had a fantastic article that was really almost like a literature review of what's happened the last seven or eight months.

And, you know, I'm sure you've seen it at

Weow Media. Yeah. You know, when they change the formulas, having the right marketing company that can adapt to and not just, you know, like the old infomercial, you know, I think you and I are of a certain age where you remember the set it and forget it. You can't do that.

Right. So understanding that, and I'm just really talking about patient acquisition and the leads and, and, and, and right, which is what we do at GNA consult and my team. You also need to look at the people side of the business, investing in your people inside your clinics and then what are the needs based there?

So taking this cookie cutter approach and saying, here's the scripts. Scripts don't work. By the way, we can talk about that. They just don't Formulas do, but scripts not necessarily.

When you look at these pieces, When you look at a practice, when you look at a business, they have needs like, well, how do I find the right people?

How am I, my interviewing skills? If I have an office manager, say for example, and we have nine or 10 total employees, how well skilled is that particular office manager who's doing interviews for said position or however many people there are? How many interviews have they really done? And are they interviewing for X, Y, or Z?

And how do they know how to fill in the blank? So there's so many other pieces other than just patient experience and those pieces and to be able to look in a customized approach of finding out where the needs are of a practice and being able to match that to a skill set from my experience and those of my team members.

And if I don't have it, I can bring somebody in who does. And I think that's really that unique approach you mentioned. I appreciate you bringing that forward.

There's the magic right there. a very interesting approach. I love what you said about formulas versus scripting, that scripting doesn't work. But formulas, expand on that if you would. It needs to contain certain elements so that they can use their own words and their own personality to convey a specific thought.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I'll do personal and then I'll bring it out into the broad scope. So myself, a 52 year old white male from Detroit is going to have different life experiences than say a 27 year old Hispanic female from Houston. Okay.

And so when you're trying to have these conversations and make this emotional connection just in The lead call, right?

So just these calls, initial inquiries from patients who are calling to potentially come into your practice, right? Convert them from a lead call into a consult. This isn't the one to two minutes of a new patient for a hygiene appointment. This is more of that eight to 10 minutes, maybe even more when you're really trying to make an emotional connection and get to their why not the what, the what is the product, the why is the motivation behind it.

And so being able to relate to them in a way, allowing them to share their story. And so. The scripting would be the words on a page, the exact words, and memorizing those words. The formula for me, and I use an acronym, I'm big on acronyms, Is EAZ right? The E is the empathy. And how do you express empathy without just simply saying, Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

You know, the caller says, Oh, my upper plate has just not fit right. I've had it for a long time and I have some discomfort in my upper right. Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. What do you mean you're sorry to hear that? Like that, that sounds so empty and shallow, but if you can identify with, well, you may as the person who's working in the practice.

Never had an upper plate before because you have all your teeth. However, have you ever felt discomfort? Have you ever had something that's been frustrating before? sure.

That's how you relate that part of empathy to the person, right? And there's other elements, right? Give them your undivided attention.

You know, are you paraphrasing back to them? Are you know, actively, there's different pieces and elements. So it's that first part of the formula. That you're trying to express to them. And the second part, the a of the EAZ is assuring them, assure them they've called the right place. Now it's not, you know, Oh, our doctor's the best.

You've got to come here. He be, this is why he's the best. You can't say it directly, right? You could, but generally not. Right. And so it's the indirect way of being able to assure them. You know what? We got you. This is the place to come of all the other that you saw when you Googled, whatever it is that you did, or whenever you, however you found us, assuring them that called the right place.

And this is the place for you. And then the Z is zeal, right? I speak with a little bit of zeal, right? A little bit of oomph in my voice, you know, is really to help lift the conversation and of, of the literally thousands of phone calls that I've listened to on phone recordings, It's if you start to lift with a little bit more energy because most of the patients that are calling it, I am calling because I saw an ad like about like this, this, this dental implant stuff or that you do, right?

Because most of them are have some shame or they're scared or fill in the blank. And so if you talk with a little bit of zeal, you can hear the energy of the patient lift up as the conversation continues through. If you lift up with a little bit more energy. And then driving the conversation forward ultimately to get that appointment, get them to consult because you need to try to not force, but encourage them to have some skin in the game to really want to come and see you not hang up the phone.

And two days later, cause it took them courage to make that initial inquiry. To really want to continue through with that to follow through with that to come in and see you So that's what I mean by a formula rather than scripting certainly They need to come up with you know Some parameters around it but each clinic and I call every dental office a clinic because it's a medical clinic Especially when you're talking about a twenty thirty fifty thousand dollar procedure

They really need to come up with their own parameters around the formula Um, but I think that's terribly important to be able to come up with what that formula looks like specific to that practice.

And of course, there's more detail underneath, but just to give your listening audience a little bit of an idea of what I mean, formulas instead of scripts, because there's so much more effective with clients that I work with.

[00:09:30] Joseph : E A Z. Empathy, Assure, and Zeal. That's a great example of a formula. I like that.

[00:09:38]Greg : But it's not easy, even though it does say easy. It's simple, but it's not easy.

[00:09:43] Joseph : I can imagine The office manager or the, the individual in the clinic, , most likely mirrors the enthusiasm level of the caller and you don't want to do that. You want to take them someplace, right?

Rather than simply answer their questions in the same tone that they're asking. that that's not conducive to scheduling that appointment.

[00:10:06]Greg : Well, exactly. And what you're talking about then is mirroring the patient. And this is so often what's taught in sales or in, you know, phone etiquette is to mirror the patient, right? If they're excitable, you know, lift your energy up to them. And what we've learned and not just me, but others that are in this space and that have worked, Really being able to drive the conversation forward in in a courteous way, right?

You don't want to blow their doors off, but that is something that's critically important in order to be most effective. And again, There's no trust involved initially when these patients are inquiring. It's so much different when you're doing direct to consumer marketing for this patient population than it is in a referral network.

And the traditional referral network, from that referral office, they're leveraging the trust from that referral office. When they're inquiring into your practice. And so in that scenario, you're not trying to establish, build, and then leverage that trust going forward in your practice to try to lock them into, you know, this, who are they?

Should I, trust them? Is there any connection? Which means then I, have some type of skin in the game, some type of fidelity to this practice that I literally just found. Possibly on the Internet. Maybe I saw it on some social media. Maybe I saw it on an Instagram story or on Facebook. Really, what's the level of trust there, especially with the skepticism these days?

So it's really needing to be able to find that level of connection and start to build that trust. And then transfer that trust authority once they actually come into the practice, which will help reduce your no shows. And there's a lot of other pieces to that formula, which are critically important in that patient journey, not just in the initial inquiry, but it all starts with that initial inquiry that I've been speaking about today.

[00:11:57] Joseph : I often think of the technical side, , of making the phone ring comparable to the technical side that a doctor needs to invest in in order to do the dentistry that he does or the implant or the full arch, but making that phone ring as, as now as much of a science as that is be more than it was years ago,

You're taking a medical professional, a dental medical professional, and you're expecting them to know sales routines, or to use your word formulas in order to schedule that patient, regardless of who's on that call, have you found that to be challenging?

[00:12:43]Greg : Well, it's, it's a really great point. And one of the things that we've found is that if you have people who are open to learning and oftentimes the learning. Platform can be the most challenging. And this isn't just from, you know, myself saying, Oh, I think I've got a good way. Let's sit him down. And each individual learns differently.

I always talk about the seven different personality profiles. And oftentimes I talk about that with the patient, the way you're identifying with a patient, you know, the one who believes they know it all, and they're overtalking you and interrupting you. The other one that's really demure and you can't get any information out of them.

So when you ask the question, So tell me a little bit more about your dental condition and they really give you nothing and you're constantly trying to drag information. It's the same with working with individuals within a dental clinic, those that are motivated to do better. Clients don't reach out to us at GNA consult.

If they have a plethora of patients, they're doing full arch profitably and everything's going swimmingly. There's usually an area of opportunity cause they want to get better. They want to grow or they're high, you know, they're wanting to expand. There's some level of opportunity in their clinic or in their group that they want to improve upon.

They know they can be doing something better or things have gotten better. arguably worse, right? This happened a lot actually last year because patient dynamics have changed. And so I say all that because the challenge within each of the clinics is also for myself and our team is to learn their learning style.

So a lot of the learnings online, but there's also some in person learning, but predominantly it's Having the, having metrics, right? Knowing when the volume of calls is highest, right? Working into their scheduling to get them the time and the tools. But that's why, just like we're talking here today online, it's not killing them death by PowerPoints, right?

It's having these one to one conversations. being relatable to what they know, listening to their calls that they send to us and say, we'll highlight some of the calls, listening and giving that coaching feedback, and then highlighting it the following week. Those first 30 days of uplift, those metrics change significantly because it's still of all the industries that I know, the dental industry is the most relationship oriented.

And especially when you look at a niche like full arch. So yes, you're taking a medical dental professional who has the clinical knowledge and skill, and then you're asking them to be able to relate on an emotional level to patients that are calling in, which is much different than what maybe traditionally they're used to, which is, I don't want to say impersonal, but somewhat it's a mechanical process oriented, , New patient hygiene call, right.

Cause that new patient hygiene call is identify if that you accept the insurance that they have, unless you're a fee for service office. What availability do you have? Let me take down some basic information, get them on the schedule. Cause it's not really a revenue generating opportunity in, in general, right?

It's really about the lifetime value of the patient and being able to provide service in that way. Which is different from the emergency patient where they're already have motivation behind it. The full arch patient generally is trying to figure out, find out, shop around, and then you have to filter through, you know, when you have grants that are being put out online and grabbing actual landing pages, and you have to filter through that and you're overcoming two major objections, which is how much does it cost and do you take my insurance for these huge cases, these large scale cases and the way that you navigate that.

Is critically important to the success of that initial inquiry about whether you've earned the trust to be able to have a continuing conversation, be able to actually see them in your clinic, which affects your average arch acquisition cost.

Clients who are trying to, or clinicians who are trying to add full arch into their practice, it's one of the biggest hurdles that they face. They'll invest a lot of time, effort, and energy, right? I call it time, talent, and treasure into the beginning parts of full arch and adding it to their practice.

And it's one of the biggest, I don't want to say mistakes. It's one of the biggest challenges they have is that it's not as simple as. If my average, , if my arch acquisition cost is 2, 800 on average, cause that's what they're told by a marketing company. Okay. Here's 5, 600. Where are my two arches this month?

There's so much more that goes into it with team development and answering the phones and being responsive to those inquiries that come in and what platforms and the build out and all of that even before they come into the door. That's so critically important. And then we can certainly talk about once they come into the door and the branding and the consistency of language and all the rest of that I work with teams on as well.

But this is one of the most critical pieces is that initial inquiry. Because I've seen so many clients talk about we've invested X, Y, and Z, and we're just not seeing the consultations or we're not able to close the cases, which I feel for them because there's, you know, it's difficult out there and having a marketing partner who understands and a growth partner that understands, like we owe media that understands, okay, This isn't like snap your fingers.

There's no magic pixie dust that we're going to sprinkle on you to get you the qualified leads. We're going to partner with you. We're going to identify what your brand is in the marketplace, and we're going to do a comprehensive plan to be able to bring to you what makes the most. Now let's look at your systems in place.

Is your team ready and prepared to be able to capture the momentum that happens with patients that are inquiring?

Um at the level that you're looking to to convert them into consultations Show up and then the team's prepared as well to have consistency You without the micro fractures of trust, because on your digital, it says CBCT. The person answering your phone calls it a cone beam. When they get in clinic, your dental assistant says, we're going to take your digital records.

Then the clinician says, Oh, let's take a look at your cat scan. Well, all of those are literally the exact same thing generally, but it's called four different things.

So by the time it comes ready to present to them the cost structure for this rehabilitation for their mouth, they don't know exactly why, but they really just don't have this comfort and they have these micro fractures of trust all along the way because you haven't been
consistent.

And that's just the CT scan doesn't matter what you call it, but just be consistent in what it's called and what you're presenting out there. And there's another of a number of other examples. Um, but that's just one of them that cleaning up that language and consistency helps patients to feel more at ease that, okay, I don't know exactly why, but this feels like the right place for me.

And that's why selecting a marketing company like we owe media. It, it's one of the things that I talk about all the time, that there needs to be a fit with your energy and your vibe, right? It's not just a culture fit, but really with who you are of your branding and what you're trying to present to the marketplace.

[00:19:58] Joseph : That's an interesting concept that it, that it impacts the trust, which the patient doesn't really know at the time that they're evaluating their trust level of that provider, of that clinic.

They just, they just. Know what they like and what they don't like.

[00:20:15]Greg : Well, and here's the thing, Joseph. Yeah. And here's the thing. If you or I were going in for a treatment, literally you or I, right. We're going in for some type of dental procedure, right. Treatment. And they presented a dental treatment that was 1, 200. Let's just call that number out. Right. Okay. 1, 200. Like the way that you or I would pay for that, we would think about it.

It's like, okay, we could probably swipe a credit card. Maybe there's some type of like, you know, revolving credit that they have in there. Like 1, 200. 1, 200. Gosh. All right. Hate that we have to pay this, but probably should have it done if they built the, the need in, right. And you understand there's a need. If they, build that there's a need in for a 30, 000 procedure, right. That, you know, you kind of need, right. You've been embarrassed because your sister has been making fun of you the last 10 years that you haven't smiled in the family pictures and.

Fill in the blank, right? You know, there's a wedding coming up or you're going on a cruise with your spouse or you're fill in the blank, but it's a 30, 000 procedure.

And now you're looking at an eight or 10 year monthly payment of 425. That's a little different. Now you have, you're looking longer term. Now you're talking about, well, I mean, it's kind of a car payment. Now, maybe not the car that I'm driving right now, but that's another story for another day, but that's a longer term commitment.

That's not a, I'm going to swipe my card and I'm going to pay it off or gosh, I got to take that out of my savings. That really stinks. I was saving that up for, you know, I'm going to buy myself a guitar, whatever it is, like some type of discretionary income. But now I have to pay a medical expense for this is a longer-term commitment for a number of years that you're getting into.

So these little pieces of micro fracture of trust, you're, you're in this for the long haul. I mean, I don't know about you, but I would, even if I have that in the bank, right, even if those who they say, make sure you have 3 to 6 months of liquid savings, you know, for monthly payments, like if something were to happen as a, even if I have that. Yeah.

What I really want to slap that down like you'd have to if you built in the value, what I really want to take that and slap that down. Now I have to start thinking secure is my job? How secure is my spouse's job? What is the economy going to look like? What is the political landscape look like?

What's going to happen? I mean, you start to ask all of these questions rather than You In a 1, 200 transaction. So that's why full arch. And I talk about this all the time, colleagues of mine who are in full arch, you know, if they understand that, then they can start to build these processes and workflows to be able to walk a patient along this journey and put these consistencies in place to help them in their buying decision because it is different.

Ball game whatsoever. And that's why some of the more successful, those that are out there, the DSOs and the bigger chain, like they spend a lot of time, effort and energy locking it in and it's consistent. It's a, it's a McDonald's franchise, right? It is similar. Everyone that you walk into, they might look a little different.

Some are have been around a little bit longer than others, but it's fairly consistent, the product that you get and the presentation, the way that it's handled, and that's why some struggle of these independent clinics. over others. Fluctuations in the market always happen, but the consistency, what can you control and team and consistency of messaging and branding, these are the pieces to be able to work on internally, to be able to present better when the public comes in.

And when they're making their initial inquiry all the way through, um, the patient experience once they're in clinic.

[00:23:56] Joseph : Greg, you mentioned earlier that, the patient's mentality has changed over time and either just as recent as six months and even two years ago. Can you speak to that? How, how is that changing the, the patient themselves, what they're looking for, how they, how they think, what?

Mm.

[00:24:18]Greg : From what I'm learning, right, and I'm consistently learning, I'm always trying to learn and understand better the patient population. As this procedure continues to become more commonplace, as dental implants become more common vernacular for the layperson, it is, I don't want to say rare, but it's much less common that if I say dental implants that people that I run into in airport and Airports are a big part of what I happen to be lately, at least, you know, but just in general, if I talk about dental implants, it is more uncommon than common that people just wouldn't understand what I'm talking about.

There is a level of common knowledge amongst the general public, at least in the United States. Whether it's true, you know, whether they have a clear understanding or an unclear understanding, and then the full large treatment therapy, the teeth in a day, or, you know, there's a lot of different things that it's called is becoming more common in their vernacular, but also, you know, the fact of the matter is that if you google anything related to implants, More and more sponsored ad come up, there's much more education available and patients are becoming much more savvy and how they're going to spend their dollars.

And the reason why it's Ben this way and it's continues to grow this way is you see click bait that happens out there all the time on the social media, right? Whether it's on tick tock or on meta, right? Instagram, Facebook, they're trying just simply to get more clicks on their site and you know, Oh, 150 implant, click here.

[00:25:58]Greg : And once you click, it'll actually have. Real landing pages, right from, I know because clients of mine have this and I work with a number of marketing companies, you know, um, Corey and I, , Corey is one of the co founders of wheel media. I've talked about this. There's not much you can do about it because it's third party that you'd have to kind of have on.

If not, you're going to lose. Like, I think I've heard as high as 80 percent of your leads. And so it's kind of, it's, , people wouldn't be using that for clickbait, getting people to click on their site. Using actual landing pages, if it weren't effective for them to get clickbait, right? If, if, if it wasn't effective, they wouldn't be doing it and trying to do their, their scams to try to just get people interested.

Or another one is grants, right? Oh, there's a grant. You can get full arch, you know, you can get a grant to have full arch treatment therapy done. And it, , it annoys the ever living, you know, out of clients of mine and they talk about it. And so. I'm needing to educate them as consumers of marketing. And so what that tells me though, if we pull it back to the bigger picture, is that there's more and more and more understanding, even if it's incorrect information out there about implants and specifically about full arch treatment therapy, because the needs so great right now, there are 34 million Americans missing 14 teeth or more. Let me repeat that because that is an astonishing number, 34 million Americans missing 14 teeth or more because of the tremendous amount of need and the tremendous amount of supply out there, supply being clinicians who do full arch treatment therapy, it's really bridging that gap and the level of desperation for those who have dentures or just have the missing teeth or have bad teeth or have a bad tooth.

Um, you know, whether dentures or like even snapping, right? You know, it's a good, it's better than nothing, right? It gives them back about 40 percent functionality of what their adult teeth are, but it's not like the 90 percent functionality that a fixable large can give them. And so there's just so much more.

That patients understand about it. There's so much more information out there. There's so much more disinformation out there. And in this, you know, information age, it's more about, you know, getting them to know what is true and what isn't true. And because of that, having to level up, , the, the knowledge base of our teams in the full arch clinics.

Is more critical than ever before because a flippant answer to yeah, I'm calling because I see that you have grants for full arch. No, we don't do that. That conversation ends instantly if it's answered in a flippant way like that. And certainly God bless anyone out there that's listening. That does. Any type of call center work, whether it's in dentistry or not, I bow down to you because I, you know, in a previous life before dental, I worked with a company that actually helped us.

I was a corporate sales trainer with advantage rent a cart back when they were independent. Um, and we had a group, the frontline performance group and a shout out to them. They're amazing with their training and sales program. It's where I got so much of my good. education in sales formulation, training, programming.

In call centers, I mean, the amount and level of discipline it takes. I mean, just like outside salespeople, but even more so of. Man, just the nose over and over and over again. And call centers get a bad rap because you know, the robo dialing and all that, that we deal with on a regular basis.

You're amazing. All of You are amazing, but to be able to give them the skills, um, and tools that are, necessary to be successful at what they do to help the clinicians doing full arch is critically important. And that's why I talk so much about investing in your team and helping them to invest every little chunk along the way.

If you're doing full arch, there is a certain level of profitability, you know, giving a small percentage, and it can be a little bit, but all those that have a touch point in that patient journey, I'm a big believer should all benefit from it proportionally to what they're contributing to those patients getting that brand new smile.

And if you do that, then everyone's driving toward the same goal. And you can talk to just about anybody who talks in motivation and in sales. If you incentivize that way, and there's ways to do it responsibly and profitably. You will see that you'll have the right team members, you'll have motivated team members, and you'll be much more successful.

[00:30:37] Joseph : When someone thinks of, , full arch consulting, I think most of us in the industry think, , well, you're going to be working with the provider or the dentist in, feeling more confident or competent in, in the delivery of, of the, the implants or the full arch themselves.

And that's a whole nother science. How often do you find the doctor themselves not feeling as comfortable or as confident as they should be in order to do the number of implants that you think they have the vision for? Is that ever getting the way?

Yeah, I appreciate that question. So the great thing is because I've been in the industry as long as I have, I have a tremendous amount of relationships in the industry. And so if a clinician isn't able to, , isn't skilled up to the level for particular cases, I mean, I call them specialized implants, you know, whether they're pterygoids or zygomatic implants, they're just not at that level or advanced cases, there, there are a lot of opportunities for them to still be able to maximize their marketing dollars.

[00:31:44]Greg : Through, , all different types of channels to be able to source in or source out those particular cases. Um, and then also to have recommendations. There are a number of different industry partners at institutes where they can go and get more education.

I mean, if you look at, , I'm always learning something new every day and the best clinicians in the world are doing the same thing because there's always an opportunity to get better at what you do. And then to share that skill with others along the way. So as far as like making recommendations about them clinically in surgery, in op.

No, , when I was working for a manufacturer like Neodent, sure. We would talk about parts and pieces and things of that nature. Um, but that's not really something that I do now when it comes to the presentation, , to the patients. Certainly there's two different types of, or two different sides of the presentation with the patients.

There's obviously the clinical where they do share about, you know, how much bone do they have and what's going to be recommended and how would we go about with this case, , and then the sales presentation, cause it, it's It's about sales, right? You know, you are selling a case. And for all those that are bristling about talking about sales, you're in sales every single day, right?

Sales is not a dirty word. It's something that we're doing all the time. And it's really just presenting our best foot forward about the opportunity of what we can help to accomplish for those patients. But it's really two separate. Okay. Aspects and some of the clinicians that I work with do need a little bit of honing or on that aspect of this, the clinical presentation or specifically if they have some associates that are a part of their practice who are newer to full arch of just some, again, it's not the scripting, but it's really the formula.

[00:33:25]Greg : It's the pieces to touch on. And in that regard to there's also some education on what I call the handoff hand up between the doctor and the treatment coordinator between the dental assistant and the doctor depending on their workflow or what I call the walk flow of a particular clinic or practice so that information shared in front of the patient so that they know that this trust authority that's happening and being built all along the way of being cared for in clinic can can continue to be built.

Um, and they feel like, Oh,

so they're actually listening to me. They're caring for me as if you were, you know, you had like a ball of trust in you cupped in your hands. And you're passing this gently along the way, rather than doctor walks in barges into the room. Hi, I'm Dr. So and so and starts. At least there's some soft and trust me, some clinicians are tough, right?

I tell like the dental assistant or the treatment coordinator, you got to kind of block him, you know, where he's coming into the room. So stand in the way and get your three seconds in, you know, This is Jenny upper plate pain on the upper right. This is Dr. So and so, you know, I mean, sometimes it's that quick.

I mean, ideally there's more of a cadence to it, but depending on how busy they are in the clinic itself, but there should be a handoff. And one of the most important things that I teach coach and train. To clinicians is before they leave the room. Of course, they're doing a check in with the patient before they leave.

The room is actually talking to hopefully the treatment coordinators in the room. But that's this is something that I strongly recommend to be able to hand that authority back over to somebody in the room before they walk out, because if not, then they walk out of the room with all of that authority.

And then somebody else has to pick it up and almost start from scratch again. It's one of the biggest keys that are missed in full arch clinics when I start working with them. And it's a subtle thing, but it is extremely effective. So that's one of the pieces that I think are critically important. So that's a nice little free nugget that you're, , none of your listening audience has to worry about paying my team for, because I believe in giving away free content and all on all of my socials, you, can grab a ton of this stuff.

Because I just believe that sharing is caring and if you can implement this in your own clinic, by all means, you know, grab all the content you can off of my, , off of my socials and do it yourself

[00:35:46] Joseph : right. No, those are great pearls. We think of that hand You, you refer to hand off and hand up, , we think of those as little things, but, , I've learned that the 80, 20 rule is alive and well in the dental office. , we think of them as little things when those can be the things that determine whether or not that patient ultimately schedules Could you name maybe just one example of a common pitfall that a dentist will fall into when he's trying to do more full arch cases?

What's one example that maybe we haven't talked about yet?

[00:36:26]Greg : Oh yeah, that's a good question. I think one of 'em would, I think a big one would be having the right resources and tools in place, and so along those lines would be third party financing companies For big cases, having one is great and I work with a number of 'em, but having an a couple of options I think is even better.

And the reason I say that, so whether you call them a financial coordinator, a treatment coordinator, whatever the case may be, being able to soft pull on a credit and have a couple of options with different lengths of terms and years and, , , interest rates after they've done the discovery with the patient established the need talked about.

You know, have you set some money aside for this? What, you know, how are you looking to pay for this? What's more important? You know, the, the interest rate or the monthly payment, these types of cascading questions to get them to where, you know, you want to be able to help them to get to a yes for their brand new smile.

Once you get there to be able to offer them and show them options in writing in front of them, helps you to be more of a collaborator, than somebody who's really selling at that point. And once you can be collaborative, it tends to change the dynamic and the relationship completely.

So I think that's probably one that I would say is one of the bigger ones that we haven't touched upon yet here today,

[00:37:44] Joseph : Yeah. Having, having that treatment coordinator or that financial arranger, , mentally or emotionally move to their side of the table so that, so that the patient feels as though they are doing everything they can to make this investment affordable is very different. Then trying to sell them something or thinking that we have a responsibility to convince them to do what we want them to do.

Very different approach, isn't it?

[00:38:14]Greg : Yeah. absolutely. Yeah.

And it's, it's something that the best full arch clinics in the country are doing and whether they're doing it, you know, you, you said, whether it's mental or whatnot, and even sometimes physically, depending on the layout of the office and whatnot, sometimes the, the difference of just sliding next to the patient and showing them side by side, rather than handing it to them face forward, just little changes like that, , in body language.

You know, at the patient's eye level, not looking down at them. And if your chair is up higher and they sit down lower because the way your, your room is set up, that's okay in the beginning, but make sure that when you start talking about that money and you get down to that conversation, you know, make sure that you're adjusting to their level and just little subtle things like that.

Can make all the difference in the world. , you know, when you get to that, you know, very sensitive piece of the conversation, right?

[00:39:05] Joseph : What's best for the patient and how can that patient best make that decision or best navigate what is the greatest value proposition for them? Greg, when I did my own research on you and preparing for this, one of the things that I saw was, , your client said, you know, um, it's not like it's Greg doesn't seem to be interested in creating a long term relationship here where we need him in order to function.

Um, that I think that's a very unique. Um, , quality, , what, what's your average time with a, with a practice that wants to reach their, their goals and, and, and become what they want to be in that full arch space. What does that look like?

[00:39:56]Greg :Yeah, I can appreciate that question. It's not even an average time. So I work on six month proposals, no contract and it's month to month. So once they have the tools, if it's less than that six month proposal, they can take the tools and kick me to the curb. So that I just, I feel that there should always be an opportunity to be earning your keep while you're in the process.

And after six months, and then those, most of those clients end up what I call legacy clients. They may bring me in on a quarterly basis, annual basis for a tune up with their team. And that's, that works for them, but yeah. In my capacity, it's Really? about giving them the tools and then the longevity of the tools.

So all of the online trainings are all recorded and they get to keep those recordings so that they can go back and look at them again, review them again. I mean, if you think about it, if I'm, if my team is doing, or if I'm doing a team recording and it's happening at 10 am on a Tuesday with somebody who's doing the lead calls.

The clinician should be in the chair doing productivity. So if they want to review it, it's going to happen after hours. And so this is something that's extremely important to me. And then the in office days, I'm more of a fly on the wall and doing, you know, training as we're going along, , and observing and coaching.

It's not, we need to shut the practice down. Production is number one, always is, always will be. And That's where I think the greatest value that I bring to any clients that I work with for

[00:41:15] Joseph : Greg, that's, that's impressive. That's impressive. One of the visions of this podcast, Marketing Matters, is to provide our clients with some tools and some pearls and some wisdom to help them sharpen, you know, their own approach to dentistry. And, , you have so, you have so accomplished that

[00:41:37]Greg : Thank you. Super passionate about full arch and helping clinicians to do it better, right? Do it better, more efficiently, and to be able to kind of bridge that gap between the patient need and then the supplier, the providers, , opportunity to be able to, to, , bridge that gap and help that need for sure.

Thank you so much for having me on today.

[00:41:58] Joseph : What's the best way someone can reach you?

[00:42:01]Greg : yeah. So Greg Essinmacher, you can find me on all the socials, LinkedIn, Instagram, tons of content there. GNA consult is the company page, but they're pretty interchangeable. You can find me one to the other or the easiest way. If you just want to send me a text or give me a call. It's 602 743 5262.

Feel free to reach out to me. I'd be happy to have a conversation with you.

[00:42:24] Joseph : Wonderful. Greg, thank you again. We love your passion. Thanks for being such a great partner.

[00:00:04] Joseph : Welcome to Marketing Matters with Wheel Media. As your host for this episode, I am joined by our very favorite, Patti Williamson. How long have I known you now, Patti? Probably like, like six years, I think. At least six

[00:00:19] Patti : At least. Yes.

[00:00:21] Joseph : Let me just start by introducing Patti for our listeners. Over 20 years in this dental space. You probably know more about implants, technically and otherwise, than most dentists in America. I mean, regional manager with Nobel for, I don't know, how long was that?

[00:00:41] Patti : Uh, it was about five, six years.

[00:00:44] Joseph : When you're in the position that you were in to help doctors do more implants, that becomes very far-reaching, like with consulting, it naturally kind of goes into how can I better market myself and help patients understand my abilities to do implants, which involves not just the way the doctor presents himself to the patient and explains what he can do, but it involves the entire team.

[00:01:18] Patti : Yes, it does.

[00:01:19] Joseph : So, and so with all of that experience, you must have you kind of started to move into that area kind of naturally, didn't you? Can you explain that?

[00:01:30] Patti : Yeah, it actually started in New York City, believe it or not. I had a periodontist who had just opened up a practice, and he was looking to increase his case acceptance in dental implants, and he's like, "Patti, can you do a lecture for me on communication skills? Right? And bring the passion to the team members of my referral practices so that we can get on the same page and increase our volume of implants and treat more patients better." And that's really how it started. It was pretty fascinating and exhilarating as an individual to see how motivated these folks got, and his business just blossomed.

[00:02:08] Joseph : I spoke to one doctor back in the day that said, you know, "I heard Patti speak and lecture about implants and taking a team approach to doing more implants," and he said, "I just thought, you know, this is exactly who I want my staff to hear. So I brought in Patti. And she was just like immediately part of the team. She coached on their level, all of the things that they needed to understand to better, you know, refine their approach and their communication." And that doesn't surprise me at all to hear a doctor say that. So with this episode, I think we talked about, you know, maybe just sharing three things if you could that that seem to be the most popular or the most in demand that are really critical for a practice that's wanting to do more implants, maybe better understand.

[00:03:00] Patti : Yeah. So it's a great topic. One of the things that I try to speak to my practices about is, "Let's look at what you have in your practice already that we can get a good quick start on and increase case acceptance that way." And it really does come down, as you said, Joseph, to just a couple of tools to get the ball rolling.

Now, we could go fancy into AI and all of that stuff down the road. But right now, let's look at the patient brochures you have in your practice. Let's have a lunch and learn and practice those brochures so that when the doctor finishes his wonderful or her wonderful presentation to the patient, your team members can then really communicate exactly what you said to the patient again because what we know is when the doctor leaves the room, they're going to look to the team member, and they're going to say, "What do you think?" And the more tools the team member has readily in their verbal skills and in any type of communication skills, it helps close cases. It's just a fact.

[00:04:08] Joseph : Just using the material they already have and understanding that material really can arm them with a lot of essential dialogue that they don't really think about until someone kind of coaches them through how to maximize the content in that brochure.

If it's something that they have available for the patient to read, whether it be the brochure or like the website, the staff should, the team should know what those things are and be very well-versed in those. And so that's the first start. That's where you start. That's

[00:04:47] Patti : Yeah, it is. I talk about branding, right? So, you know, when I first meet with the doctor, I'm like, "What is your brand? What is your vision? Where do you want to go?" And then once I get that from the doctor, I say, "Okay, now how do we share that with your team? How do you get that message out there?"

Right? And once again, it's with what they have currently, and you mentioned a website. We spoke pro patient brochures, but the website to me, you know, I've had practices have these beautiful websites built, and the team members have not ever looked at them.

Now, we know today from the fact that our consumers, our patients, carry their cell phones around and are lost without them. They utilize it as a tool to find things.

So we want our team members to have the ability to answer any of the questions that come up from a patient asking a question about a website. So back to those easy-to-implement tools. If you have a Lunch and Learn with your team on how to utilize everything that's on your website, what common questions could come up, doctor works with the team to get those answers down. It's an easy stream of dialogue from the website to the phone call, to the patient in the chair, to closing the case.

[00:06:04] Joseph : I learned somewhere that in sales, the first rule of sales is to know your product.

[00:06:11] Patti : Yes.

[00:06:12] Joseph : And so you knew that product inside and out as an implant specialist.

You're helping the staff understand that they have to understand their product.

And a lot of their product is already spelled out in dialogue, in content, on their website, and on the brochures, and all of the printed content that they have. But if they're not familiar with it, they don't project that very well to the patient, do they? Is there kind of a negative connotation in the team about selling implants?

[00:06:46] Patti : The word "selling" scares dental practices. Right. But they are a for-profit center, you know, and I say that kindly and gently because they are changing people's lives. And one of the biggest passions for me being in this industry so long is to see how gifted they are, the team members and the doctors. So when we think about selling, as we said, it's really more about educating your patient to give them a futuristic look at what it is they could possibly look like.

You know, so if I can position it in an education way, which I'm really passionate about because education is king, if you can educate somebody to emotionally understand how something like a dental implant can change your life, then you justify it with logic, right? We buy with emotion, and we justify with logic. So that's what I try to get across to the team. Albeit, yes, they're closing cases, but honest to goodness, they're treating patients better with new options and they're giving them beautiful smiles, and that's really what they signed up for.

[00:07:56] Joseph : So when we talk about selling, we're not trying to sell something to someone that doesn't need what we have to offer.

And maybe that's part of the mindset that we get hung up on. But when it comes to really educating that patient with regard to the implant, are there other technologies or tools that you suggest or recommend that can also assist with that?

[00:08:21] Patti : Yeah, there are. First and foremost, we spoke about brochures, which I think is important. The other thing is, too, is dental models. They are very easily obtainable today. And to have a model, if we think of humanistic behavior, we like to read things, we like to see things, hear things, touch things,

so if we have the printed material, if we have a model, and we can show them how it can benefit them, and then take it a step further and go into the visual field of videos and patient testimonials. To me, those two really are the icing on the cake. We are a visual society today.

We like to hear what other people say, not only about the practice, but about the procedure and how it has changed their life. And then also, animated instructional videos are hugely beneficial because if they're 10 to 15 seconds long, that's a very good time frame for our adult learner today because the attention span is fast. It's fast.

[00:09:29] Joseph : I was surprised how many dentists would try and just explain things and then not show them any additional marketing or educational collateral, expecting that patient to go home and explain to their loved ones and others that may be trying to help them afford what that investment is.

[00:09:49] Patti : It's usually, you know, a multiple-person decision. And I am a huge proponent of our team members, and or with the doctor's approval, of course, right? Because we want to make sure we're following guidelines for upon the clinical decisions.

But if you have videos on your website, send that video link in a text or an email to the patient so they have that information. So when they go home, or they talk to the person that's going to help them make that decision, there are resources. A lot of times, patients are in a fear mode when they're in the dental practice, even though we know our dentists and team members don't hurt patients, they still have that fear mode.

So if you give them the tools to take home and show their decision partner, we might say, it gives them the understanding of how it can change their life. And now that decision partner isn't just thinking about finances. They're thinking about what the patient can look like and how it can change their life.

[00:10:53] Joseph : Good point, Patti. I remember when my wife was diagnosed with the need for a single implant, a single unit, and she came home all apologetic, you know, with what this was going to cost. I'm thinking, "Oh my gosh, if she comes home feeling that way with me having been in dentistry for, you know, eons, how does a patient feel that it's just learning about what an implant is and how much it's going to cost for maybe the first time?"

[00:11:23] Patti : You know, you have the patient who is shocked that they need something done that's that much of an investment.

Then you have the patient who has done four months of research, and then they have other questions. So, you have to, as a team member, be ready for that, right? And to be able to know the history behind that. And that's where I really like the huddle, my morning huddle with team members, because if the doctor leads the huddle, and they have information that this patient, when they called in said, "Yes, I've been to six offices."

It kind of gives that team member a little bit of history to build up so they can prepare themselves to be able to serve that patient the way that they need to be to get that case closed.

[00:12:09] Joseph : So, the team needs to be able to quickly assess where the patient is in their journey.

[00:12:16] Patti : A thousand percent. A thousand percent. And, you know, one of the things that I enjoy doing with team members as a level-up type of education is to speak to them about personality and behavioral styles and understanding where that patient is in the journey as quickly as you can, and then pivot. Yeah, to be able to give them the resources that they need while they're in that mode. If you have someone that's just looking for how long, time, price, that's one way to handle it. If you have someone else who's just learning about it and they want research, then the team member needs to be able to have that research readily available for them so that they can feel that they're getting all the information that they need to make the decision for the investment.

[00:13:02] Joseph : What other type of communication skills have you found are very helpful, or where do you feel that a common area that they're really lacking most, and it's just a blind spot?

[00:13:16] Patti : So one of the things that I love to focus on with my team members when I'm in a practice is the skill set of using your words. Commonality of, and consistency in language is key. If we think about our clinical expertise that our doctors and our team members have, they are really good at what they do.

And how do they get there? They get there by practice. Think of our athletes. They get there by what? Practice. What I find, especially in the implant dentistry world, is if we don't practice our words and how we're going to speak to the patient in different scenarios, then we can sometimes lose that patient or stumble and lose what that journey could look like to close the case.

So it's a role-playing session. My team members don't like it, but it really is a good session because they role-play in their skills clinically every day. We want them to do that with their words.

[00:14:17] Joseph : Role-playing, they're not comfortable with that.

[00:14:21] Patti : No, none of us are.

[00:14:22] Joseph : It's awkward, isn't it? Especially when you're doing it in front of the rest of the team. Because that's like being on stage, isn't it?

[00:14:29] Patti : Yeah, it sure is. And I try to do it more one-on-one when I do it with the team because, and it's really about utilizing, when we do the role-play, it's utilizing the models, utilizing the website, utilizing the patient brochures, and having a dialogue.

It's about having that dialogue to get them comfortable. And, you know, when you think of "All-on-4," for instance, there's a lot of different terms for that. And that's a dental procedure that replaces all teeth in a fixed solution. So, you know, how do we get our team members up to par verbally on consistent language so that the patient understands it?

So there are my examples I use, and it's always one-on-one in front of a team is tough, and I wouldn't want to put them through it because I wouldn't want to do it.

[00:15:22] Joseph : That's very considerate to do the role-playing one-on-one. I don't think I was ever that kind. I usually did it just as a team. No wonder they were uncomfortable. Um, let's talk about case acceptance.

[00:15:37] Joseph : As a general rule, is there a system for where, what that patient journey should look like, in your opinion, as they move that patient from one individual to the next?

[00:15:51] Patti : Yeah. I call it the patient journey. Right? I learned this wonderful skill set from our practice, a general dental practice. And they use what they call the "handoff" in a manner such that the patient comes in, and the person as, and if they're a new patient, right? We love to have our new patients come when? First thing in the morning and first thing after lunch, because why? We want to make sure we're on time for our new patients.

Right? So that's not always the case, but if it is, and if it's not the case at the huddle, we want to identify, "Hey, we have six new patients coming in today. What is that going to look like? Who are they? Who is going to be responsible for the greet and the intro?" And at that point, when they come in, you greet them warmly. "So happy you're here. You chose the best place," right? That's that welcome. Then when the assistant comes to get them to bring them back, have them do a little tour, a little bragging session about the doctor and the team and the practice, and learn a little bit more about the patient as you're taking them back to the chair, right?

That's part of that handoff. And if we think about that, sometimes our team members are so busy that they just kind of run them on in and sit them down. If you can take just 15 to 20 seconds and have that little handoff discussion, you're building rapport, right? You're building that instantaneous rapport that they called your office because they liked the rapport they saw on the website.

Now you're continuing that as the patient journeys in. When the patient then sits

in the chair, the assistant in front of the patient will then hand off to the doctor and explain to them everything they talked about, you know, "Mrs. Jones has a discomfort in the lower left quadrant. We're going to take a peek at that. Here's the x-ray." Then the doctor does their stuff. Then once treatment is decided and the patient journeys back to the financial team, the assistant in front of the patient, again, reaffirms everything that happened, everything that they're doing, and what the plan is, and then hands off to the financial individual and says to the patient, "We're, you know, you are in the right hands. She's handled so many patients just like you, and she's going to find the perfect scenario and treatment for you." So it truly is about a journey and the handoff for the patient.

[00:18:16] Joseph : So the journey is very much takes place inside that office as part of what we all think of as case acceptance. It begins with that patient accepting you as a practice long before they accept the treatment that may be maybe presented or diagnosed.

[00:18:40] Patti : Yes, 100%. And honestly, just if it goes even a little bit earlier than that, if we're going to speak about patient journey, what do we know about people today? Are they going to check out a review before they call a practice as a new patient? We know that's going to happen. We know in the, what, mid 80s, 84 percent of people today in health, you know, looking for healthcare treatment will look at a website and reviews before they click to call.

So when we think about that, it starts, that relationship starts before they're even in the office, but you want that continuous care all the way through.

[00:19:19] Joseph : Yes.

[00:19:21] Patti : And it builds an emotional relationship. Once the emotional relationship is built, then the patient will justify what needs to be done because they can see, they can envision themselves, and then they will financially, logically make that decision.

[00:19:35] Joseph : I've heard that referred to as when there is buyer's remorse, it is when they're unable to justify their emotional decision with logic.

[00:19:48] Patti : Correct.

[00:19:49] Joseph : And we don't want that to happen. A patient is just too valuable to lose because we didn't perform the other part of that acceptance plan, which has everything to do with us.

[00:20:03] Patti : And I think to add on to that, Joseph, when we think about patient case acceptance, we also have to think about what you just said. We are going to run into scenarios where we're going to get no's, right? And I always encourage my practices to have a pending file of those who "I had to think about it," or "I'll get back to you," or they just haven't responded. They ghosted you. What is that really look like within the practice, and how are you going to tend to those? Because they're still warm leads, right? And find out where they're going, what's going on, stay in touch with them and try and kind of learn from what happened to make yourself better the next time.

[00:20:45] Joseph : Let's go back to the huddle as well. A huddle is always essential in a dental office. And if a practice is doing implants, it kind of takes on an additional level of importance.

[00:20:59] Patti : Yes.

[00:21:00] Joseph : What are your thoughts on that?

[00:21:01] Patti : And if you have three denture patients coming in, or potential new denture patients, or partial patients, as a team, what does that look like? Meaning, is the team member ready to discuss? Set it up, tee it up for the doctor, understand the pain points of the patient. If a patient doesn't love their teeth and they're tired of having to worry about what they eat, their smile, they don't smile, then that is all great information to discuss in the huddle on how you're going to talk to that patient about it and then present it to the doctor.

So I always encourage my teams to look at, with the doctor, obviously look at the huddle, look at how many potential implant patients you have, and focus on those for increasing that case acceptance.

That's exactly what I was referring to, that you're looking through a completely different lens when you're doing implants with a morning huddle.

[00:22:07] Joseph : Yes, there are things that the doctor knows that he may have not yet communicated to that clinical assistant that will be seeing that potential implant patient, and vice versa.

[00:22:18] Patti : Yes. And that's where it's key, having that open dialogue in the huddle about the potential patients that could benefit from implants, right? That's our goal, right? If we can help change their lives with dental implants and give them a smile that they love, then there's your win, right?

I mean, so many of these patients focus on all the things that aren't working within their mouth, right? And if we as a team can kind of get that emotion, right, and it is emotion, it's

[00:22:48] Patti : from our team members too.

[00:22:49] Joseph : You bet. It's got to be. Their connection emotionally has everything to do with with how that patient may respond to what is needed. And they, and the team has plenty of stories, don't they? If they've been around a while, they have plenty of success stories that they can draw from.

[00:23:07] Patti : Yes. Yeah. And third-party validation within HIPAA confinements, of course, but third-party validations within the confinements of what you can and cannot say, but still show them the emotion that you can change their opinion to give them that futuristic look of what they could have or what they could look like, is so beneficial. And then follow it up with a little bit of a link or a patient story that you can send to their phone that they could take home with them.

[00:23:38] Joseph : It's more than just a clinical diagnosis, it's now a personal connection that might mean all the difference in that patient saying, "This is where I want to have the implant done," or "This is why I need to have this done."

[00:23:55] Patti : When we talked a little bit about communication skills and role-playing, they're the things that have to be worked out ahead of time, right? You have to understand how you're going to handle all of those and what that's going to look like when you're presenting to the patient.

So you're still consistently giving a positive message, but say cost is something the clinical team is not going to get involved in. They still have to know how to answer that when the patient asks the question, and I'm not saying give the details but have an answer saying, "Hey, Sue up front is amazing. She helped three people this week right exactly in the same shoes as you. I know she's got the best answer for you."

[00:24:34] Joseph : To convey with confidence that we know we can make this affordable, and we do it all the time.

[00:24:40] Patti : Yes, and financing is a huge thing for them.

[00:24:43] Joseph : It is. It really is. More so in a practice that does implants than any other practice, because we're talking major investments here.

[00:24:54] Patti : Yep, investment in your smile is what I always say.

[00:24:58] Joseph : Interesting. Have you found that in some practices there's one individual that seems to be the most versed, the most relied on, or the most skilled in communicating with patients with implants on the clinical team?

[00:25:14] Patti : You know, when we have teams that really want to advance in this space for dental implants, we encourage the office manager to find that champion, and whoever that champion is gets to wear the hat of treatment coordinator.

[00:25:31] Joseph : Okay.

[00:25:32] Patti : They get to be really the journey person, the contact person for that patient.

Now they may branch off to talk to the finance team, but then they come back to the coordinator, or the coordinator could present, you know, practices of course are different, but I'm a big proponent of finding that emotional champion. It's really important. And you will know within your practice who has that personality to kind of wear that and run with it.

[00:26:00] Joseph : Interesting. And it's not always clear to the practice until you go in and help them see that, uh, that necessary element.

[00:26:13] Patti : Yes, and that comes to monthly meetings, you know, speaking about the good and the bad and the ugly in your monthly meetings is really important. And having that champion, you know, be able to speak about his or her successes, what they learned, and how they could be better at it. I had a practice not too long ago where the person who was at the front answering the phone and greeting people ended up getting promoted to treatment coordinator because this individual had that passion to really do that. They can still answer the phone when needed, but now they're actually closing these big cases because they have the passion and the drive. And the entire team has really escalated in their overall enthusiasm because they've seen how this works.

[00:27:02] Joseph : That is such a crucial component to doing more implants. And yet, in my work with dentists, they tend to focus on the clinical side. But there's so much more than just the clinical education side, isn't there?

[00:27:20] Patti : There really is. And, you know, I do though like to piggyback with my clinical partners, whichever implant company that they're working with in the office. If we are going to go down the route of trying to increase our case acceptance, we practice our skills. We use the tools that we have within the practice and the website.

But I also will ask who is the implant company you're working with, and let's get them in to do a lunch and learn so that the team, every part of the team, can understand what this looks like and how it can change people's lives, right? These are all easy tools that you can implement. Now you could go down and buy fancy equipment and all that down the road, right? But these are the things that can get you started quickly and effectively.

[00:28:10] Joseph : I love the approach of, start where you are, and you probably have more resources available to you than you realize, but they're dusty.

[00:28:20] Patti : Yes. And, you know, the other thing to think about when we talk about those easy tools, your manufacturers have patient brochures and flip charts, animations, all of that stuff free for any practice. Any practice, you know, and it's right there at your fingertips. It's just about asking for it.

[00:28:43] Joseph : Yeah.

[00:28:43] Patti : Then work with your web company to start adding videos.

[00:28:47] Joseph : Yeah, the videos that they might show in treatment while that patient is in the office should be a video that's accessible when they get home, right on their website. Not to mention how much that video would optimize their search engine.

[00:29:08] Patti : Yeah.

[00:29:10] Joseph : Isn't it though? It's huge.

[00:29:13] Patti : Yes. Yes. Lots of moving parts on that, you know.

[00:29:17] Joseph : Patti, this has been so enjoyable. We could talk all day about this stuff. We both have a lot of passion around helping doctors do more, and it's because we know that the patients, the patients are really the beneficiaries, aren't they?

[00:29:35] Patti : Yes, they are. I mean, it changes people's lives. Dental implants change people's lives. And when the practice starts to see the patients coming in and saying things like, "Why did I wait so long?" It gets them all fired up to, you know, quote unquote, "sell more."

[00:29:58] Joseph : You go, Patti, how would you like people to contact you if they'd like more information on what you can do for their practice?

[00:30:05] Patti : The best way to reach me is via email or my cell phone. I'm a big texter. My cell phone is (908) 123-4567. And my email address is p.pattiw@gmail.com.

[00:30:23] Joseph : Wonderful. I can see why you're so busy now that you are in consulting and helping practices do more implants in a way that you probably wanted to do and did to some extent along the way as a manufacturing rep and in the management side of all that. But this has got to be far more fulfilling.

[00:30:47] Patti : This is such a fulfilling turn in my journey because I am changing patients' lives through the expertise of the practices I touch. That's just an amazing gift that I get.

[00:31:03] Joseph : It doesn't get any better than that. That's awesome. Thank you so much for joining us.

[00:31:09] Patti : Thank you.

Joseph: Welcome to Marketing Matters with Weo Media. As the host of this episode, I'm honored to be joined by two very special guests, Drs. Jonathan and Angela Misch. First of all, thank you both for being here.

Jonathan Misch: Thanks for having us. Seriously. Yeah. Sincerely.

Joseph: It's our pleasure. If our listeners don't recognize the name Misch, I feel like I need to fill in some blanks here. We were just talking about the appreciation for some history and what your late father, Dr. Carl Misch, did for us as a pioneer in implant dentistry. He was the author of the book, Contemporary Implant Dentistry, which gave birth to terminology we take for granted today. The book is in its third edition and was translated into nine languages. He was the clinical professor and director of oral implantology at Temple University. He had more postgraduate degrees than we have time to mention. He would lecture in every state in the U.S., plus 47 countries, publishing over 250 articles and co-founding BioHorizons. We're talking about one of the great pioneers of implant dentistry, culminating with the founding of the Misch International Implant Institute in 1984, which was the same year I began coaching dentists on practice growth and improvement. The respect that people had for the Misch Institute was part of who I was. And then they would teach me what they'd learned, not clinically, but their appreciation for what they'd come to learn really became part of me because I was focused on practice growth and helping them accelerate their growth. You can imagine what happens when, particularly a general dentist starts doing implants. We're able to accelerate growth in a way that you really can't do any other way. Really, I've seen a little of it done maybe with cosmetic dentistry, but you're talking about the difference between a very select demographic for aesthetics versus a very broad need for implant dentistry. There's just no comparing the two.

Angela: The Misch Institute, I believe, was the first implant institute out there. So, the boom from general dentists in 1984, going from not having the hands-on training and not placing implants to going to Misch and doing that. And from there, the birth of other institutes, and it so happens that a lot of those guys, even now, were trained by dad.

Joseph: We're trained by Dr. Carl Misch.

Angela: I'd say most of them.

Jonathan Misch: People kind of said, "This looks like a good idea!"

Joseph: So, if you're going to learn how to do implants at an institute, would you not want to go to the mother of all implant institutes?

Jonathan Misch: Yeah, I think so. A bit biased, yeah, a little.

Joseph: I thought you might be. And then, of course, Angela, you were telling me that you were 16 years old when you learned that your father had a brain tumor and he would ultimately pass when you were 18. Up to that point, you had decided, I guess you said all your life you were thinking of being a veterinarian. But you grew up in a dental office.

Angela: I did, but everyone knew I was going to straighten my head out and see the light. I didn't have a choice, right? But, after my rebellious phase of not wanting to do what the family does, I took a good, long look at myself and asked, what do I want to do with my life? I wanted to honor my father's legacy. Dentistry, other than maybe family, was the most important thing in his life, and I wanted to continue that, his spirit, in whatever way I could. Then, I just found myself actually really liking the profession. I mean, I love working with patients. I'm a hands-on person; that's just how my brain works, very logical. But he's the guy who drove me, and I could say the same for Jonathan.

Jonathan Misch: You know what's funny? Angela and I have a very similar coming to dentistry story in that I'm very glad I ended up liking it. I mean, it's now a full-on passion. I'm nerdy about things that nobody should be nerdy about in perio and implantology. It's kind of weird. But I started it very similarly to Dad. Dad got into dentistry, he told the story all the time, because he wanted an ice cream cone when he was a kid. He asked his dad, "Can I have money for an ice cream cone?" And his dad said no. He said, "What job do I need so that I never have to ask you for money again?" And he was like five or six years old, and his dad said, "Either an attorney or a dentist." And he said, "I don't know what an attorney is. I'm going to be a dentist." So, he got into dentistry because when he was six years old, he wanted money for ice cream. I got into dentistry because after I graduated college, I was working in the wine industry. I was the sommelier at a restaurant in Las Vegas when my dad would have institute weekends, and he would bring his doctors to my restaurant. I'd be serving some of the best bottles on my list and would never have even tasted these bottles. I knew the plot they were from, I knew the elevation, I knew the soil types, I knew everything about the bottle. And I'm watching these guys just chug it like it's water, and then I was like, "What the heck? I'm in the wrong chair here. I need to be a dentist." So, I went back to school to become a dentist and now I love it.

Joseph: That's interesting.

Jonathan Misch: I'm glad that we ended up liking it, though, Angela.

Angela: Yeah, aren't we lucky?

Joseph: Well, sometimes these careers find us, don't they? And here you are, Angela, you're the COO of the Misch Implant Institute.

Angela: I'm proud to be.

Joseph: The brains behind the operation.

Jonathan Misch: She's the brains, for sure. There's no less than that. Come on, guys.

Joseph: That's really impressive. Your passion to see your father's legacy thrive, not just survive, but literally thrive because of all the advantages that you feel are unique to MISH is what we really want to spend some time talking about. And Jonathan, here you are, a respected periodontist yourself.

Jonathan Misch: I can't believe it.

Joseph: I could go on and on about your bio, but that would just embarrass you. But understand that your focus is on all the factors that influence peri-implant bone remodeling, right?

Jonathan Misch: Really, yeah. That's my primary focus. My thesis was on the impact of the prosthesis on peri-implant bone remodeling disease experience and physiological remodeling. It's kind of cool for me because I didn't choose to be interested in that. It just kind of ended up like my second year in residency. I kind of realized that I knew more about that than most people. People started asking me for recommendations on these things. Like, what about abutment height? What article was that? What about emergence contour? And all of a sudden, I start to realize this is actually the same thing Dad was really interested in, which was marginal bone loss. He attributed it to occlusal forces and wanted to understand how biomechanics impacted bone loss around implants. He really dove into biomechanics. That's why everything that his philosophy on implants, if you're going to sacrifice length, increase diameter, increase the number of implants for force distribution, all these types of things, his implants that he liked had square threads because biomechanically that made the most sense. And now today, we're starting to understand a lot more of the biology behind bone to implant contact and emergence profiles and bacterial load and how that impacts marginal bone loss. And that's what I got into, the biology behind it, realizing also that biomechanics plays into the biology of it. So, it's kind of cool. Like, I'm like, "Oh, hey Dad and I were kind of on the same thing," and now Angela probably is going to be also. So, it's not going to be an accident, but you're going to fall into this.

Joseph: That's got to be a thrill ride to be reading something and think, "Wow, that's part of my legacy." And a lot of what you seem to remember had its roots in your father.

Jonathan Misch: Yeah, definitely. I think it's fun to reflect back on like Institute weekends before I was in dental school, and Angela, I'm sure same for you. I was the kid running around the floor. Actually, I'm looking forward to the first alumnus that comes up to me at an institute weekend and says, "I remember when you were like four years old with nunchucks pretending to be a ninja turtle." I actually remember doing that. I mean, I can't wait for somebody to tell me that.

Joseph: How many alumni are we talking about when we're talking about the MISH Implant Institute?

Jonathan Misch: At this point, over ten thousand alumni. Dad had an incredible reach.

Angela: And they keep coming back. Many of them have taken our course more than once. And that's not because they didn't learn it the first time; it's because they want to see what's new, what's up. They loved it so much the first, the second time around, they want to bring their associates. A lot of them have children now who are dentists because, as we know, it runs in the family. So, they want to bring their kids. And it's really just crazy to see the family feeling around MISH.

Joseph: You see, that describes an organization that is not exclusive; it's extremely inclusive. It's one that's not just surviving; you're beginning to thrive because of the relationships that exist throughout the world. I know this is not just limited to the United States, is it?

Jonathan Misch: Yeah, and actually, I think primarily when Angela and I took control and started to reformat the way things were going with the Institute, the first thing that we spoke about was how we wanted to get back to the family feel of things. We felt like after Dad passed, we lost, obviously, a big part of the legacy and the foundation of the Institute. So, the first thing we wanted to do was try to bring back people that were a part of it from the ground up. Obviously, Heidi was, I think, the first person that we got in contact with and was like, "Hey, we want you to be a part of this." But then Steve from BioHorizons was, I think, possibly the second phone call. And thankfully, it didn't take much convincing. The first time I talked with him, he was just like, "Anything that I can do to continue this, I'm going to do." So, that's why we have BioHorizons now back with the Institute for the first time since I think 2016, right before Dad passed away. So, I'm so thankful to have that. Obviously, Dad being co-founder of that, but it also fits because the Institute, the way we restructured it, was based on Dad's philosophy of being centered in the most up-to-date literature and providing really the best education possible, which is why people would come in the beginning. And BioHorizons was centered as well because he was a part of that foundation. And when we went to the facility actually to visit, it was really cool to see how much of him was still present there. And how they would constantly talk about how everything is supported by rigorous literature and support to show, "Yes, this is why we do this." It's not just something we feel is right. And that's something that Dad was always very big on. It had to be supported by evidence. You know, because everything is biased. You could think you're doing one thing, it's working so well, but then when you actually track it, I actually had that experience myself. Dr. Saleh, one of our course directors, he tells a story that years into his clinical practice, placing implants, he ended up having to do something where he needed to surgery track his implants and do some numbers on failure. But he also looked at marginal bone loss while he was doing it, just out of curiosity, to see, you know, "Oh, I really like this implant system the most. Let's see how the other ones are doing, but I think this one's the best." And he says today still that it was the thing that opened his eyes because the system that he thought was far and above the best actually had a much higher failure rate and much more marginal bone loss. It was like third place, and it just kind of showed him that things need to be supported. It's not just, you can't just go with what you think is right, you know.

Joseph: So, all along, Dr. Carl, we'll call him, was not intent on doing it his way or wanting to convince everyone that his way was best. He was building an institute that could be supported by facts, by the most relevant current data available. And that's what your alumni have come to appreciate.

Jonathan Misch: And I think it happened that he was also very into performing research. So, everything that he was teaching happened to be supported by his research.

Angela: I was gonna say, uh, I think that he was right most of the time, but he also had the research behind him most of the time.

Jonathan Misch: Yeah, right. And that's the thing today. I mean, people know that it was always supported by facts.

Joseph: Not only do you have a loyal following with your alumni, but you also have a loyal following with your educators. I would love to know about that because this institute isn't the Jonathan and Angela Institute, is it? This has become just what your father had foreseen, really, that it would grow based on everyone that can, in fact, contribute to that legacy. And you're just, you're actually, even as COO and CEO, you're only a piece of that.

Jonathan Misch: In the '80s and '90s, it could conceptually happen where an individual knew everything there was to know at that time about dental implants, and maybe also performing all of those things at the highest level that evidence can provide. Today, I just don't think that's possible. I think periodontists do a great job, prosthodontists do a great job, general dentists do a great job, oral surgeons do a great job, but I think all of them can learn from each other, and I don't think one of them can really tell the full story. So, I'm a periodontist, but I know for a fact there are so many things that my prosthodontic colleagues need to teach me. And there are so many things that I can teach them. And there are so many things that the oral surgeons can teach me.

Joseph: The very discipline itself has become like a symphony, hasn't it? And an appreciation for that music, if you will, is where the MISH Implant Institute really shines with your appreciation for those interdisciplinary approaches to implant dentistry.

Jonathan Misch: Yeah. So, that's really what we've ended up doing with our faculty. We now have general practitioners speaking. We have periodontists, we have prosthodontists, we have perioprosthodontists, we have maxillofacial prosthodontists, we have ortho-OS dual specialists, we have oral surgeons. It's an absolutely balanced education where you're coming in, you're not just learning. Previously, we had a very strongly prosthodontic-focused education. And actually, when I sat in those classes as a perio resident, I would hear things and say, "I know that's different than what I just heard in my implant class," but that's because I was learning the perio side, and now they were being taught the pros side. Right? And so, that was something when Angela and I talked about restructuring, we really wanted to make sure we tried to balance that out and get everybody to be fully...

Joseph: So, when you have multiple instructors on a weekend, they're going to, they're not for general dentists. They're not for prosthodontists.

Jonathan Misch: No.

Angela: You're learning from the best person to hear about that topic. You're learning from the person who is doing the firsthand research, who is publishing the newest technique. You're learning from them exactly what you should be doing.

Jonathan Misch: That's exactly the perfect way to say it actually. So, each person that is coming to speak, whatever they're coming to speak on, they're speaking on it because they've shown that they are a leader in the industry for that topic.

Joseph: And knowing something about dentists, I'll just bet that even those educators are learning from each other because it's a continuous process, isn't it?

Jonathan Misch: I would say so, definitely. Actually, one of the things I say very often right now is it's exciting as the CEO of an institute to be able to say, "I'm so excited to go to my institute and learn this weekend."

Angela: I'm incredibly excited to take our courses and to take them more than once.

Joseph: So, all along, Dr. Carl, we'll call him, was not intent on doing it his way or wanting to convince everyone that his way was best. He was building an institute that could be supported by facts, by the most relevant current data available. And that's what your alumni have come to appreciate.

Jonathan Misch: And I think it happened that he was also very into performing research. And so, everything that he was teaching happened to be supported by his research.

Angela: I was going to say, uh, I think that he was right most of the time.

Jonathan Misch: Yeah, right.

Angela: He also had the research behind him most of the time.

Joseph: Not only do you have a loyal following with your alumni, you have a loyal following with your educators. I would love to know about that because this institute isn't the Jonathan and Angela Institute, is it? This has become just what your father had foreseen really, that it would grow based on everyone that can, in fact, contribute to that legacy. And you're just, you're actually, even as COO and CEO, you're only a piece of that. Describe the rest.

Jonathan Misch: I wish anybody could just fill Dad's shoes and stand up there on the podium and be somebody who was up to date on all the literature in every aspect of dental implants. And the fact is, dental implants have grown so much since the institute was born. In the 80s, in the 90s, it could conceptually happen where an individual knew everything there was to know at that time on dental implants, and maybe is also performing all of those things at the highest level that evidence can provide. Today, I just don't think that's possible. I think periodontists do a great job, prosthodontists do a great job, general dentists do a great job, oral surgeons do a great job, but I think all of them can learn from each other and I don't think one of them can really tell the full story. So, I'm a periodontist, but I know for a fact there are so many things that my prosthodontic colleagues need to teach me. And there are so many things that I can teach them. And there are so many things that the oral surgeons can teach me.

Joseph: The very discipline itself has become like a symphony, hasn't it? And an appreciation for that music, if you will, is where the MISH Implant Institute really shines with your appreciation for those interdisciplinary approaches to implant dentistry.

Jonathan Misch: Yeah. So, that's really what we've ended up doing with our faculty. We know, I mean, not only are our MISH educator positions, they're all the biggest names in the world. One of our things we wanted to bring back was the opportunity for people to learn from a pioneer of the industry. Because there are very few opportunities to do that, especially in an implant continuum. But we also wanted to try to make sure that we were bringing people from different disciplines. So, we now have general practitioners that are speaking. We have periodontists, we have prosthodontists, we have perioprosthesiologists, we have maxillofacial prosthodontists, we have ortho-OS dual specialists, we have oral surgeons. It's an absolutely balanced education where really you're coming in. You're not just learning. Previously, we really had a very strongly prosthodontic focused education. And I think almost every single one of the faculty was a prosthodontist really. And actually, when I sat in those classes as a perio resident, I would hear things and I'd say, "I know that's different than what I just heard in my implant class," but that's because I was learning the perio side and now they were being taught the pros side. Right? And so, that was something when Angela and I talked about restructuring, we really wanted to make sure we tried to balance that out and get everybody to be fully...

Joseph: So, when you have multiple instructors on a weekend, they're going to, they're not just for general dentists, they're not just for prosthodontists.

Jonathan Misch: No.

Angela: You're learning from the best person to hear about that topic. You're learning from the person who is doing the firsthand research, who is publishing the newest technique. You're learning from them exactly what you should be doing.

Jonathan Misch: That's exactly the perfect way to say it actually. So, each person that is coming to speak, whatever they're coming to speak on, they're speaking on it because they've shown that they are a leader in the industry for that topic.

Joseph: And knowing something about dentists, I'll just bet that even those educators are learning from each other because it's a continuous process, isn't it?

Jonathan Misch: I would say so, definitely. Actually, one of the things I say very often right now is it's exciting as the CEO of an institute to be able to say, "I'm so excited to go to my institute and learn this weekend."

Angela: I'm incredibly excited to take our courses and to take them more than once.

Joseph: Yeah.

Angela: I am, and I think it's a great experience for me, especially since I haven't learned. Well, I'd like to go into perio, but I haven't learned it yet. So, I'll be learning implants from my father's institute.

Joseph: Wow.

Angela: That's really important to me.

Joseph: That is great. Well, and you should be because he truly gave birth to something that is still living and changing and growing and evolving at a pace that who could have predicted this? I mean, you write a book on implants. And you think, okay, well, you know, how much more could you learn about implants? And yet, wow, that just what I saw again and again. We're dentists in two general camps. One that was just too intimidated to even go there and wanted to just kind of stay the course and refer it out. And the other one that was willing to make the investment and take the risk. And at some point realize that a weekend course or five weekend courses might not be enough to get them where they wanted to be. And they struggled with feeling like, "I should know this, but I'm afraid to work on my patients." And I know there's a reason we call it a practice, right?

Angela: And I've heard that story multiple times, that they pay so much, they take a weekend course or even a five-weekend course, and they go home really excited and they realize, "Oh crap, I have to do this on my patients now? I have to place my first implant on my patient?" After what? And they're unsure about the treatment plan. What if complications arise? And it's true, these are your patients, you're humans that you are responsible for. So, what we've done at the new MISH Institute is we've created a mentorship program, which is after you complete our course, we know that you are going to need help. We know that you're going to need handholding, and we don't expect you to know everything. I mean, who would? We don't know everything, or our educators don't know everything, obviously. So, you can book a weekly one-on-one Zoom meeting with our MISH educators and our MISH faculty. And you can upload your treatment plans, or you can upload your CT scans, you can talk about, you know, what sort of approach you think is the best for this patient, or you can retroactively say, "Do you think I did the right thing?" Or if there's a complication, you can ask about how to treat it. I mean, we're there for you. We want the best for you and for your patients.

Joseph: That would have meant all the difference in the world. If someone could have had that kind of mentorship to connect what they learned in class or even did on a model and what they're seeing in front of them right now. Or that they know they're going to be seeing next week again. And they've got a hole in their learning that, that needs to be filled with real-time mentorship. That would have meant all the difference in the world.

Joseph: So, when you have multiple instructors on a weekend, they're going to, they're not just for general dentists, they're not just for prosthodontists.

Jonathan Misch: No, you're learning from the best person about that topic. You're learning from the person who is doing the first-hand research, who is publishing the newest technique. You're learning from them exactly what you should be doing.

Angela: That's exactly right. Each person that is coming to speak, whatever they're coming to speak on, they're speaking on it because they've shown that they are a leader in the industry for that topic.

Joseph: And knowing something about dentists, I'll just bet that even those educators are learning from each other because it's a continuous process, isn't it?

Jonathan Misch: Definitely. One of the things I often say right now is it's exciting as the CEO of an institute to be able to say, "I'm so excited to go to my institute and learn this weekend."

Angela: I'm incredibly excited to take our courses and to take them more than once. I haven't learned everything yet, especially since I'd like to go into perio, but I'll be learning implants from my father's institute, which is really important to me.

Joseph: That's great. Well, you should be because he truly gave birth to something that is still living, changing, and growing at a pace that who could have predicted? You write a book on implants, and you think, okay, well, how much more could you learn about implants? And yet, wow. We're dentists in two general camps. One that was just too intimidated to even go there and wanted to just kind of stay the course and refer it out. And the other one that was willing to make the investment and take the risk. And at some point, realize that a weekend course or five weekend courses might not be enough to get them where they want to be. They struggled with feeling like, "I should know this, but I'm afraid to work on my patients." And I know there's a reason we call it a practice, right?

Angela: I've heard that story multiple times. They pay so much, they take a weekend course or even a five weekend course, and they go home really excited and then realize, "Oh crap, I have to do this on my patients now?" They're unsure about the treatment plan. What if complications arise? These are your patients, your humans, that you are responsible for. So, what we've done at the new MISH Institute is we've created a mentorship program, which is after you complete our course, we know you are going to need help. We don't expect you to know everything. Who would? Our educators don't know everything, obviously. So, you can book a weekly one-on-one Zoom meeting with our MISH educators and our MISH faculty. You can upload your treatment plans, or you can upload your CT scans, you can talk about what sort of approach you think is the best for this patient, or you can retroactively say, "Do you think I did the right thing?" Or if there's a complication, you can ask about how to treat it. We're there for you. We want the best for you and for your patients.

Joseph: That would have meant all the difference in the world. If someone could have had that kind of mentorship to connect what they learned in class or even did on a model and what they're seeing in front of them right now. Or that they know they're going to be seeing next week again. And they've got a hole in their learning that needs to be filled with real-time mentorship. That would have meant all the difference in the world.

Jonathan Misch: Honestly, I think the mentorship program is really a testament to our course directors. This was something that Dr. Saleh and Dr. Avita were adamant about. They really structured the program that we now have as the MISH Institute. They are responsible for conceptualizing what someone needs to learn and in what order to master implantology. It's not something that you can just say, "Okay, I'm going to take a couple of weekends and sit in class and hear and do it on a model a couple of times and then go do it on your patients and be good to go." That is such a naive thought process. If that's the thought process you're having toward adding implants into your practice, you're going to be very surprised when you get done with the courses and then go, it's a very scary thing to just jump into surgery at that point with no extra guidance.

Joseph: I can imagine.

Jonathan Misch: Yeah, so for those individuals that are taking courses and still feel like, you know, I need a little bit extra, which many people do, there are so many people that take an extra course, they take two courses, three courses, five different courses, and still haven't placed their first implant. We really wanted to have something where it was like, that's not going to happen here. You come to our weekend, you're going to learn from the best educators in the world, and then after that, you're going to implement that into your practice because we're going to be right there with you. If you want to treatment plan the case, let's say it's your first implant, let's look at it together. Let's plan out the incision site, the incision design together. Let's look at your guide together. Let's see the CBCT. What's the medical history like? All these considerations so that you can go into that treatment knowing full well you're prepared. This is the right thing to do. Everything's perfect. So, I think that I'm very happy with Dr. Saleh and Dr. Avita. I'm very glad that we have them.
You know, there's this very common saying you hear all the time that patients don't read textbooks. And that's just to say there's no patient that shows up with a mouth that looks identical to what you saw in the textbook. And there's not going to be many cases that look exactly the same as what you saw on that lecture screen or in that lab. So, often, I mean, there are so many scenarios that you cannot fit that into just a clinical course where, okay, let's say you have a little bit of a vertical defect on the mesial tooth and some bone loss on the distal tooth. Okay, what's my depth on the implant supposed to be like? That's not necessarily something that will have been covered in just that course that you took, you know? So, there are just so many scenarios. So, that will certainly arise as soon as you see your first patient, as soon as you do your first case. It makes sense now that the number of variables is infinite, isn't it? When you're talking about individual people being the individuals that they are. The other day I was joking around with the fact that how is it that pizza is like only five freaking ingredients and yet they all taste different. Well, that's just five variables. You know, that's just five. Think of that how that relates to human anatomy and the science behind replacing something that we use so much throughout the day. I've seen my share of clients who had failures, and it can destroy them, but I wish they would have had the kind of support that you offer at your institute. It's far more than just a course.

Angela: You know, it's funny that you say that because the more we talk, the more we sort of develop this personalized experience that we want our Institute to feel like. We want you to come with your goals, and we want you to learn from start to finish if you want or whatever you'd like to learn, and we want to help you through it. We've created this sort of personalized experience that we start with our courses, and then we'll move you through to the live surgery part of our course, where you'll work one-on-one with our directors or our faculty, and you get to pick exactly what surgeries you want to do. What surgeries you want to focus on. With the guidance of our educators, and then afterwards, even though you've placed a few implants, of course, you're not ready to do it on your own. And so, you continuously have the mentorship. So it's tailored to exactly what pace you want to go at, what you want to learn, how much you want to absorb from the situation. And you make the most out of it by engaging as much or as little as you want to.

Jonathan Misch: I think that's really well said, honestly. And I think that's probably one of the big points that we haven't touched on right now is just the personalization. Which is something that we've spent a lot of time trying to find the best way to format this personalized offering because when you have a five-weekend course and a live surgery and a mentorship program, on the surface, it looks like, okay, that's the package. But really, some people might say, "Okay, well, I can place implants. I just want to know more about immediate implants." Like, "I've been placing implants for a while." Our immediate implant course is one of the few that actually has topics on tissue shaping, and we have perioprosts, people that we can are perioprostodontists and maxillofacial prosthodontists and David Wong's a periodontist. But so it's very much not just on placing the immediates. But let's talk about immediate restos and how to tissue shape things like this. So, anyways, let's say you just want to get on immediate implants. You can come take that immediate implant course, come to the live surgery, do just immediate implants, take advantage of the mentorship. After that, you get a free month of mentorship at that point and do some immediate cases where you're sitting down. Show some photos, all these types of things. How's my implant location? Did it emerge the right way? Why did it tip this way or whatever? How's my tissue shaping? So, I think that's a, I love that aspect of what we've put together. And yeah, I think the personalization there, not everybody needs the same path, you know.

Joseph: Especially when you've already established the fact that there is no cookie-cutter course for dental implants. And so why would you not want to make it as customizable based on the needs of that dentist as possible? So, it isn't just when the Institute first began, was it generally tailored to a general dentist, or was it always towards every specialty?

Jonathan Misch: So, from an educational side, our father, it was never just a lecture just for general dentists. No, actually, one of our educators, David Wong, I just mentioned him. He was a periodontist, is a periodontist. He attended the course I think in 2007 or 2008, something around there. And he said that's where he got his advanced bone grafting training and some of the implants like he said, "This was a deeper dive into implants than what he had gotten in his residency." So it, although I think in dental school we learn very little about dental implants and placing implants. You're not really, that's not the focus of dental school. But it definitely takes a lot of time and training to perfect it. So it requires that type of education. So general dentists may feel like, okay, this is the avenue that they take in order to get it. But especially now that we have the level, the caliber of educators that we have, Mauricio Arrujo, Rodrigo Neva, Pierre Gallo, like these names are spotlight, headliner names. I mean, you can pay $10,000 just for a weekend for this one guy. So I, I'm, I know that right now this is something, I mean, even my co-residents at the University of Michigan, I want to go to this course. Like, I actually want to learn from these people. That's one of the reasons, like I said, that's one of the reasons I'm excited to go. Like, I want to see Rodrigo Neva and Pierre Gallo and learn about sinus and GBR from those guys. You're kidding me? That's freaking awesome.

Joseph: Ah, that puts it all in perspective. For me, that puts it into perspective. When you have an institute that is literally attracting the best of the best educators in the world and bringing them all together for a weekend, that's a tremendous amount of value.

Jonathan Misch: It's actually, we should, I honestly want to say a big thank you to our educators actually because some of them are not affiliated with dental institutes specifically because they didn't want to bucket their name into. And actually, I spoke with Marcus Blatts. He's a restorative dentist. He's the chair of the prosthodontic department at the University of Pennsylvania. He's got something like 150,000 Instagram followers also. Besides the fact that he's just an amazing clinician and researcher. He was named one of the, like number one dentist or one of the top dentists in the world. What, I don't know, like he's incredible. If you don't know him, Google him. Like, he's incredible. He's going to be a part of the course when we release that in 2025. When I called him and was talking with him on the phone, I, and I asked him, you know, would you consider being a Misch educator? And I'd love to talk with you about designing the prosthetics course, just to get your insights and all of that. He actually said, because of the reputation of the Misch Institute, he would love to be associated with the Misch Institute. And I hope he doesn't mind me telling that story. I don't think he would, because he was very adamant that he's excited to be a part of this. So, I thank him so much for allowing, or for being with us, but also just for all of these educators to have their name associated with ours. I think it's a testament to what Dad did for sure that they believe in this name so much that they're willing to be a part of this and to provide this caliber of education.

Angela: It feels like such an honor to be able to sort of usher this sort of education.

Joseph: You know, Angela, that, what you just hit on, is the why. I mean, one of the whys was, well, we don't want our father's legacy to die, you know, because, you know, the name is great and it's our name, so, you know, I that's one why, not that it's yours way down there in the basement, but when you're describing what you just did, that is a why that is so beyond any implant course I have ever heard described. That is more than just a legacy.

Angela: Well, that just brings another point about the mentorship. Something that we've really stressed is that we are going to match you with exactly who you need to talk to. So if you have an implant-related question or a prosthodontic-related question or some other question, you get to pick the faculty that you get to speak with, right? So, we have, we're going to have all the educators and faculty and multiple different people with multiple different times. You get to click on what you want your session to focus on, whether it be the prosthetic part, the implant part, what have you, and then you get to pick a time and who you want to speak with because of their specialty, because of their knowledge. And if you want to change, if you want to talk to a different specialty every week, like, be my guest. Okay. Bye. You know, learn as much as you can.

Jonathan Misch: Just to say also, saying specialty can come off as though it's only specialists. There are many general dentists that we have as educators that are doing phenomenal work, and they're going to be there to be able to also give the general dental mentorship there because I mentioned my buddy, Chris Bono, just a little bit ago. He's doing some phenomenal full arch cases. And I learned so much from him. He's going to be one of our mentors. So, yeah, it's something where by specialty, we mean something that they have specialized education in, and they're able to provide that. Obviously, we know general dentists can do phenomenal work. That's why we're excited to be able to train them, or to offer training to them.

Joseph: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And it's based on experience, right? If you were speaking to just our listeners at Weo Media, what would you want them to know? What is there something we could do for them to get them registered for this course, for this Institute?

Jonathan Misch: Well, I mean, our courses are going to be starting here in March, on March second. Obviously, there's also going to be a discount for those members of Weo Media and for dentists that are working with Weo Media. I know Angela probably has the code for that.

Angela: WEO Media

Jonathan Misch: And I believe it's a 20 percent discount as well.

Angela: We're really excited to work with you guys, and obviously, all your clients know how awesome you guys are. So, we just want to welcome everyone with open arms and show them how great this can be.

Joseph: Sounds like a great partnership. I'm thrilled to, I feel fortunate to have been able to learn as much as I have tonight about not just where we are today with the MISH Implant Institute, but what tomorrow looks like and that, and how close that tomorrow really is. I'm excited to watch you guys grow.

Jonathan Misch: I just really quickly wanted to say you touched on just excited the excitement for this partnership. The first meeting that we had, I cannot tell you how excited I was when we hung up from that first Zoom and Angela and I talked afterward and we were just like, this is absolutely the group that we need to be with. Like, we always it, we gotta let everybody know you guys really hit the nail. You know exactly what is needed. We agreed with everything that you said. And the fact that you personally knew about Dad and his impact on the field and the history already was sentimental to us also, but it also just showed that you're not, it's not your first rodeo. You've been in the industry long enough to know the field and to know where things are. So, I'm very much excited for this partnership. I'm excited that we'll have you guys at the courses. Very excited to meet anybody that is working with you guys. And yeah, I just thank you for this time.

Joseph: This has been such an enjoyable experience, and thank you for all you've taught us and our listeners, and thank you for all you've taught us and our listeners, and we wish you the very best, and can't wait to see all that happens and evolves there at the MISH Implant Institute. Thank you for your time. 


Angela: Thank you so much for everything. I appreciate it. 


Jonathan Misch: Thank you very much.

Joseph: Hello, this is Joseph with WEO Media. In this episode, I get to introduce our good friend, Craig Lum, CEO of Card Pay, to explain why he's become so popular with many of our clients. Craig, welcome to Marketing Matters with WEO Media podcast.

Craig: Thank you very much, Joseph. Thank you for having me.

Joseph: Our pleasure. Whenever you have a partner that can help your client save money and reduce their headaches at the same time, it's not hard to get popular really fast.

Joseph: But when we're talking about credit card processing, it's something that every practice already has. It's been around a while. So what is it about Card Pay that allows you to deliver solutions like it's some new technology?

Craig: One of the biggest things that we can do to help a practice grow and also their cost at the same time is by offering savings on merchant services fees. For example, we have one client that we saved over $17,000 a year.

Joseph: Oh, that's that's significant.

Craig: It's incredible savings.

Craig: They're a little bit more on the extreme end of things. But it gives you an idea of what kind of impact we can make for the practice when it comes to reducing costs.

Joseph: Yeah. That's like music to our ears.

Craig: The second value proposition that we offer is the direct relationship of service that we offer to all our clients, including the practices that we work with at WEO Media. When you have a concern with your merchant account, you're going to talk directly to our staff. We're going to know who you are as a practice and the practice will know who we are. We'll know you very intimately just as much as you will know us.

Joseph: So no calling the bank, no calling the financial institution, no being put on hold. I can see where those are the part of the headaches that you're addressing there.

Craig: Yes, we definitely do. We offer a very hands-on business relationship to the merchant account. And that's just not typical in our industry anymore.

Joseph: Oh, sure. Sure.

Craig: If you call into our office, you'll know who we are and we'll always be able to resolve your concerns or issues in a timely manner. When it comes to the merchant services.

Joseph: Great. That's certainly been the feedback. Tell us more.

Craig: What we also offer is education in our industry. A lot about what is going on regulation wise with accepting payments, was the best way of reducing your costs by accepting payments the right way.

Craig: And that is technology that we offer technology that can come in the form of our devices, which some are very go forward in the sense of cloud based technology portable devices that can be moved around the practice it doesn't have to be stationary.

Craig: Small footprints, texting and email receipts, but it also goes into the other services we offer, something that we just are announcing this week is our partnership with the practice of management bridge software that allows us. To integrate into any practice management software. So there are a lot of practices, a lot of doctors out there that are very adamant about having a one-step integration process with their practice management software.

Craig: Before this announcement, we were not able to be able to integrate with a lot of practice management software, such as Dentrix and Eaglesoft that's out there. Now we have the ability to do so, which is a very big game changer for us in helping practices out there.

Joseph: So in that integration, then you're talking about seamless process, a connection that reduces more headaches for the office manager, the administrator?

Craig: Yes, absolutely. Now, there are some practices that utilize practice management software in integration with payments. In that case, what we're offering is the ability to save you money on those merchant service fees as we would with any practice. But that would be the main goal in that situation.

Craig: But there are a lot of practices out there that do not have. Practice management integration when it comes to payments. So that's a very important role. What we can offer now.

Joseph: Congratulations on that.

Craig: Yeah, thank you very much.

Joseph: On average then, what are you actually able to save for a practice?


Craig: Yeah, the average WEO Media savings for a practice is around $1,500 a year. Now, if you can imagine that's, close to $100 to $150 a month in savings.

Joseph: Yeah even at that average, that's worth the phone call to find out just how much, you're losing or could retain when you're talking about margins as tight as they now are in, dentistry and healthcare.

Craig: Yes, and as we always promote to every practice that we speak and talk with is the ability to understand from a business perspective as well. To be able to come in as more of a consultant in that space for your payments to help reduce those costs and advise the best ways of processing those payments.

Joseph: Got it. And you're not like a new company. You just keep evolving. How long you've been doing this?

Craig: My business partner and I started this company 23 years ago.

Joseph: 23 years ago. So you were on the front end of this entire revolution then. I remember that.

Craig: Yeah. I don't know if we're at the front of the revolution, but we're definitely at the start of, the payment industry in terms of being more widely accepted going outside of the typical retail restaurant lodging environments. And so obviously payments have grown quite a bit in the industry, such as the medical environment where there's more acceptance and there's more capability of accepting payments that way as well.

Joseph: That's exciting. You are expanding.

Craig: We are, and we're definitely honed in on the medical space, looking for things that, or being able to specialize in the medical environment where we can advise and let the practices know what we can do specifically in this, in their space, especially with HIPAA and other compliance regulation that could help their practice easily accept those payments and reduce those costs.

Joseph: Yeah, that which lends itself to someone with experience in this industry. You have seen it all and you understand the regulations behind this, that a new player in the industry isn't going to know that's really the kind of experience we rely on. From just a business perspective, what excites you, why do you do this? Is it just making money?

Craig: When we started this business in this company, what was special was building a company in the payments industry that could help other businesses when it comes to reducing costs, advising them, educating them, and going through that process.

Craig: That's really what has excited us. And then more specifically in the medical industry. Working with professionals that value what we do. And there was no longer the necessary evil like you, you would see a lot more of in the retail restaurant and lodging industry where there's a little bit more of a different view of us than there is in the medical space where there's appreciation for what we do and the value for what we do to help these practices accept payments better to reduce their costs, to understand what they need at their practice.

Joseph: The complexities around the financial side is just it's not what they went to school for. It's hard to stay up on the regulations and all the red tape associated with technology as well as finances.

Craig: Yes. And also being a WEO Media partner for so long.

Craig: I think Joseph, it's been close to nine to 10 years that we've been a partner with WEO Media. Understanding that for the WEO Media clients, knowing that we have been vetted by WEO Media and knowing that we have helped many other WEO Media clients save money to help them with their payment processing speaks volumes towards what we do and the transparency that we offer.

Joseph: We like to think of ourselves as all about helping practices grow and even helping them accelerate their growth through technology. When a partner like Card Pay can actually put money back on the table in this crunch time economy. It's not hard to see why you've become so valuable to us. How long does it take to do an analysis for a practice and how would a practice begin the process?

Craig: Once we have communication established with a practice, we will ask for a couple months of their current processing statements, and then we'll be able to provide them a written savings analysis based on those statements. And usually, that occurs within a couple of business days, turn around, and then they can make a decision on whether they want to move forward with us. And if they do, then we go through an application process.

Craig: And that application process is very easy to go through. Usually, within two to three business days, we can have the practice up and running.

Craig: If we're talking about practice management integration, that could depend, could be three to six business days.

Joseph: What other types of service then are we looking at from card pay? As far as receiving payments?

Craig: Yes. Another important aspect in the practice medical space particularly for dentists as well is online building. And it's something that was gravitating before COVID happened because the ability to offer a way for patients to pay.

Joseph:Oh, yeah. Without the practice staff being involved, making it automated, right?

Craig: And then also offering a system where it's a seamless transition to the practice. And so what we're able to do is offer a payment button. Then, they can put it on their website and at that point they can direct patients to their website and the patient will be able to make a payment directly on there.

Craig: What that does is it helps reduce the staff time in collections. But also in accepting those payments by call it by a patient calling in and taking the time of a staff member to go through the payment details, the patient can go directly on there and do that themselves now along with that online bill pay, and setup reoccurring payments. Okay, and that gives the ability for the practice to be able to offer a payment plan for that patient if they need to. And you can set a start and end date. You can start the frequency of when you want it, and then also the amounts. And it's just automated in terms of those payments happening without any staff member being involved.

Craig: The second is a way of electronically invoicing their patients is to provide a customized form where the practice can put their logo, their name, and the services rendered, send out that invoice electronically via email to their patients. The patient will click on that link.

Craig: Which will take them to that payment page that will be on their website as well, where they can also make that payment. There's another service that you can store cardholder information, all PCI compliant to be used at a later time. So, if a patient comes in and says, I don't have my card, if the practice has previously stored that card information, they don't have to ask for it. They can say, we can just bill it to you. We have that card information on file.

Joseph: Wow. I remember how sensitive that very issue was or is still today. That's accompanied with a high level of trust. Because of the technology that's now available.

Craig: Yes, it is. And what we're able to do is just make sure that information is not being compromised again to PCI standards. So then they have the capability of being able to offer that to their patients if they don't have the card that they want to use or they don't have a card at all.

Joseph: How do they contact you to begin a process like this?

Craig: So first and foremost, they can go to our website which is Card Paysolve.com.

Craig: They can also reach us by phone at (877) 883-0131

Joseph: I gotta believe checking out that website at Card Paysolve.com is a great way to start.

Craig: I think it is. It provides a lot of information about what we do, how we do it, but also what we can offer to the practice in terms of payment acceptance, reducing costs, and adding a direct service and relationship to the practice.

Joseph: Oh, that's great. I want to speak to my consultant friends out there.

Joseph: This is the type of business partner that you want. In your offering, like on speed dial the kind of partner that makes you look good and doesn't leave you hanging. This is a really proven company with immediate results.

Joseph: And whenever you, as a consultant can walk in and help them save money and reduce the headaches at the front. Make any process more smooth and more seamless. it just makes everyone look good. Craig, thank you for being here and helping us better understand and extend the benefits of card pay to all of our clients, present and future.

Craig: Thank you very much again for having me on this podcast. And again, we feel likewise with WEO Media as far as what you're able to help with our clients. So we really appreciate that as well.

Joseph: Our pleasure.

Joseph: It's great knowing you, Craig. And to all our listeners, thank you for joining us here at WEO Media.